Mark and Chris are back to put USC's recent upset loss to UCI into context, discuss the win over Cal State Bakersfield, and a look ahead at how the roster could develop as the season goes on.
The Dunk City Podcast is the podcast of record for the USC basketball community. You can find all episodes at DunkCityPod.com, USCBasketball.com or on Apple Music, Spotify and Amazon. Contact us at USCBasketball.com@gmail.com.
Mark and Chris are back to put USC's recent upset loss to UCI into context, discuss the win over Cal State Bakersfield, and a look ahead at how the roster could develop as the season goes on.
The Dunk City Podcast is the podcast of record for the USC basketball community. You can find all episodes at DunkCityPod.com, USCBasketball.com or on Apple Music, Spotify and Amazon. Contact us at USCBasketball.com@gmail.com.
Welcome to the Dunk City podcast. All right, welcome back to another episode of the Dunk City podcast brought to you by USC basketball comm Chris Houston, here with Mark Baxter. Um well, uh, the last game wasn't exactly ideal. It was kind of the perfect storm for UC Irvine, as the ant eaters were able to secure a 70 to 60 victory 70 to 60 victory over USC in Galen Center. Of course, huge caveats.
Speaker 1:Next to that, the whole week of practice prior, usc didn't have Kobe Johnson or Boogie Ellis and in fact I hear there were times when even Isaiah Collier, uh, with a bang knee, wasn't able to practice. So USC was very short-handed during the week preparing for a veteran UCI team and Really it was just a great combination for UCI in the sense that starters are out that were important for USC, young guys who were playing for USC and there, in some cases, their third game, or even, like in the case of DJ Robin, with a third in the third game with the program. So USC not yet acclimated, losing main players and forced to play at times. Who is now? Someone who is now their fourth string point guard and who Winner? If brawny James returns, he would be the fifth string point guard. So um so, not ideal situation. I think, when all is said and done, the committee will look at this loss and realize the circumstances that led to it. Let's say you, mark.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree. Um, as frustrating as that game was, I just I can't get too upset about it. I I you probably know the the bigger landscape of Rosters in this in the sport better than I do. I just I can't imagine an 18 Whose best three players are all guards and you're you're missing two of them. Is is not gonna take a huge, huge step back. Yeah, let alone you know of your entire back court if you have three of them gone in the same game.
Speaker 2:Yeah you're just gonna see. You know just moments that are tough to watch.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, yeah, for sure, and, and I think you know watching the game, I was. It was interesting to me because I wanted to see if you, as he, could pull it off, if the young guys could bring it together, if Ozai sellers, playing at times point, which he's never played Could could survive, get us out of the game, if some of our other veterans who were in the game would step up Kind of a mixed bag in that regard. Harrison Hornery stepped up with the career high game 17 points, seven rebounds. But, like we mentioned, dj Robin struggled, I think he was one for nine from the floor and missed all his three-point shots. So those are the games, but again, it's it's, it's all about acclimation.
Speaker 1:It's early in the season and you know, I think there were some positives in the game. Just see, I mean the USC didn't quit. It was 61 60 going down into the final couple minutes. And I think that you really see the issue with USC if you're losing boogie LS and Kobe Johnson, you lose so much because UCI just basically ran a zone and a box and one and they forced, they kind of compacted the middle so that any kind of Pass going down into our bigs was was swarmed upon and all our bigs were swarmed upon down there, and also it made it hard for Isaiah Collier to To drive the lane because there just wasn't anybody outside of Harrison Hornery to bust that zone, and so and so USC became very one-dimensional.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very much. So a couple of thoughts on that. I'm I'm not one and maybe it's because I'm a I'm a numbers person who is very understanding of the whole concept of variance. I'm never gonna get upset about somebody having a bad shooting night. It's really unfortunate, but it happens from time to time and it's not the end of the world, although people Sometimes think so.
Speaker 2:You know, what really upsets me is when, when, when there's bad shots that are forced and yeah, rodman had and and sellers both had rough shooting nights but until the very end, when just things were just hurried, there was not a single shot where I thought to myself boy, that was, that was a bad look, we could have gotten something better. I mean, they were just missing open shots. And it happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's a great point and also there's more to basketball than just the shot making. It's obviously an important part of the process. But I thought sellers played pretty good defensively, showed a lot of more explosion, and he's typically showed in the past. So I think he's bigger, stronger, more athletic or least more explosive, I should say. So I think Him showing that element to his game was good.
Speaker 1:There was some good intensity on defense, of course, also USC, because they only had as a Collier as a Experience ball handler and he's barely experienced at that in the college level.
Speaker 1:They had to be very careful with him. Usually he's very aggressive, going for steals and when you have Kobe and boogie Out there in your backcourt being your running mates back there, it's easy to be a little more aggressive Because you know this, the things can, the fouls can, get dispersed a little bit and you get better opportunities. But he had to be, you know, I'd say he had to be very conservative defensively, which so he didn't file, pile up fouls. And of course he also needed his breathers because Isaiah Collier goes pretty much 100 miles per hour at all times. So I think that it's just a tough situation for as good as Isaiah Collier is in his third game as a collegiate to to be asked to carry carry the team and even at that he still scored career high 23 points, which is mostly on a bunch of drives to the, to the basket that typically again, most of those shots would fall, but I was just one of those nights.
Speaker 2:Yeah, on that point to you know, to your earlier point about just just UCI pack packing it in Without those other. You know, without Kobe and and boogie we really lose the whole you know balanced geometry that we were so excited about coming into the season, sure, and you really see the inability to make the, you know, just the, the packet in defense pay. And it dawned on me after a while, this looked a lot like last season where you know, not to say that call your, you know, is the same kind of ball handler or or or pass or as Peterson, but with a lot of those those passing lanes clogged up. The effectiveness was the same. He only had one assist, if I remember correctly, against UCI, and it was just he had to thread the needle. Then it looked like he got a little frustrated and was just making passes that might not have been there or just too quick. I remember one he threw a fastball from kind of short distance and that's going to happen to a new player just getting frustrated?
Speaker 2:Absolutely no.
Speaker 1:He would have had five or six assists, I think, if there had been more conversions. It was the other thing too. And then, like you said, he got frustrated and tried to do some degree of difficulty plays in the passing game, and I think that this is one of those things he's going to have to. As he gets to know his teammates better, he's going to at some point, instinctively know not to throw the ball to Joshua Morgan from four feet away at a high speed.
Speaker 1:So I think that's going to come, that's going to come and I think it just goes to show you, with that zone that UCI had, boogie would have had a chance to break it, kobe would have had a chance to break it and, because those two would have been there, isaiah Collier also would have had a chance to break it as well, but just being the main not only the main ball handler, but the main scorer in this game, he just wasn't going to be, he wasn't going to go out and spot up from three, so he didn't really get many opportunities to do that, just from having to handle the ball so much.
Speaker 1:So I think that it's one of those games that again, perfect storm for UCI. I don't think it means anything and I think the only really disappointment I have is that we weren't able to stick it out with the players we had in those roles which they weren't really used to. Obviously, the other issue we haven't talked about is the bigs Bringing in Vince Iwachuku for the first time. He looked like he hadn't played in eight months, and then also Arrenton Page looked like a freshman, and so I think if this game was held in January, I think USC wins this game, because some of these guys who came in are more experienced than the belt. They're not rusty and even someone like Ozai Sellers by January just might be better acclimated to taking charge in a game. So I think it was just one of those things where nothing really went right for the Trojans. There was no good situations for USC in this game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you brought up the bigs. Two points about that, one on each end of the court In terms of passing to the bigs, and Collier just understanding his teammates a little better. I want to go back to the prior game for one second. He threw an alley-oop to Page that I thought there was no way anybody on the planet was going to catch it. It was just a rocket that was ascending and I couldn't believe that. Page caught it a little, finished it on the alley-oop and he might just be too used to that, since Page is a longtime teammate.
Speaker 2:I think he might sometimes think that Morgan is that ready and has the same kind of hands and coordination. I just don't think it's there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's a great point, thank you.
Speaker 2:And then on the defensive side, when you said the bigs, I just kind of laughed a little bit because you had larger men really having to guard positions that they're not really used to. One of the few things I'm going to miss about leaving the Pac-12 is the game. Analysts on the Pac-12 network are awesome and Mike Montgomery made a lot of good points and one of the observations he made was USC has no choice but to switch everything defensively and you wound up with just Josh Morgan on the perimeter defensively sometimes just all the bigs were and then, alternatively, in a very key possession for Irvine Because of that. The counterpoint was we had DJ Rodman, unfortunately guarding the big seven-foot-one German for UCI.
Speaker 1:On some switches, yeah.
Speaker 2:And on all credit to Irvine's coach. He's a really good coach. Unfortunately, we've seen it up close and personal a couple of times. He knows what to do. He said success in the tournament before and he said a lot of success in the Big West and he knows how to take advantage of those situations and he really did in the second half.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think once you realize that Kobe and Boogie aren't playing, the game plan against USC is pack the middle, make sure that don't give Collier any easy baskets down, low Fallen. If you have to hammer them, make them wear them down, just don't let them make that shot, and I think that's really how you'd have to play that in this situation. And then it was just a matter of them going back and forth like doing body blows until they were able to break open at the end of the game. But USC, I thought, played good stretches of defense, showed a lot of good defense, of intensity. It was encouraging to see. I thought that Collier showed some really quality help defense at times coming in, and I thought that Sellers brought it the intensity defensively and Morgan, of course, as always, played well defensively. So definitely some bright spots.
Speaker 1:But this is a game that you want to flush and forget about. Yeah, all right. So one of the things we can talk about that is a little more fun is USC's previous game that came after our last podcast. It was the second game of the season against Cal State, bakersfield. Now, this game also saw Kobe Johnson missing the game, but it's much easier to survive the loss of Kobe Johnson than it is to survive the loss of Kobe Johnson and Boogie Ellis, for this team and USC won going away in the home opener 85-59. What did you think of that game?
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of those things you have no control over, I think basically, if the injuries were reversed in games, I think we win both games easily. Bakersfield just isn't a good opponent. As I said in the last pod and the column previewing this game, we just overwhelmed Bakersfield. Now they're just outmanned, except for that one really big guy. I don't want to say his last name, ocariki man. We could use him in a different sport, maybe at USC.
Speaker 1:I'll just say that oh yeah, oh, the big strong guy yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, he was a transfer from Northridge.
Speaker 1:He looked like he could be president of an idiocracy.
Speaker 2:Very well said.
Speaker 1:Terry Kruse type guy yeah.
Speaker 2:So, aside but notwithstanding him, fidelis Ocariki, bakersfield doesn't really have a lot of size, but the good news is based on the big concern coming out of Kansas State. One of my biggest concerns was the defensive rebounding and that really turned around in both these last two games. But specifically in Bakersfield the bigs just really had their way. Our three most efficient players in the last game were Morgan, dj Rodman and sellers. Again, really unfortunate that that sellers and Rodman both were so good against Bakersfield. Then neither one really shot well At all against Irvine. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:Irvine is a significantly better team, I think, than Bakersfield. I think Ken Palm had Irvine ranked 100 going in and Bakersfield like 308, and now Irvine is ranked 78 Um by Bakersfield. So I mean by by Ken Palm. So definitely, you know, not that Ken Palms would be all an end all, but it's. It's just one metric and it's obviously early in the season with only a few games um, you know, for the data. But Clearly, and also used to, irvine was very, very experienced. Some of those guys I remember playing last year, a couple years ago. So these are guys who've been around and it's a pretty solid program. Is there a?
Speaker 1:Yeah, um Agree you know, bakersfield not so much.
Speaker 2:No, no. Plus there's a dearth of talent and their best players, except for the one you know, their best players are number one returning from an injury of off last season or number two coming from other programs. So big rebuild there and you could tell.
Speaker 2:Yeah um, let me just pardon me for one second. We pull up my, my stats here. Um, like I said, the defensive rounding was a lot better. Um, the one thing I saw that that might be a concern were. You know, there were some turnovers that weren't weren't you know, they weren't the smartest, but they were out of unselfishness, like an extra pass at times. Bakersfield, I'm great with that. You know, if you give me that versus a bad shot, I'm, I'm. I'll always take the extra pass versus the the fourth shot earlier in the shot clock.
Speaker 1:Well, USC had 17 assists against Kansas State and 18 assists against CS Bakersfield and only seven assists against Irvine and and again, a huge part of that is when you shoot 52 percent, 55 percent in your first two games and then in your third game you shoot 29 percent, um and four of 21 from three point. This is going to be hard to get you know, to get to log some assists in that regard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but um Few other things I saw on that game. Um, you know we had seven steals at halftime and that's with Kobe on the bench. So the defensive effort was was there call your head four, I believe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And then also I've got a note here. I remember this, this play about actually, um Boogie actually had a great deflection, uh, front team, one of their big men, which is, I mean that's, you know he's going against the guys, you know, seven or eight inches taller than him and just you know, making that play is just Love to see that I love guys that that are willing to play defense. And when you're doing that against a bigger guy, you know it's, you're not just physically capable, but you're, you know, you're just locked in in all aspects emotionally, physically, spiritually, whatever you want to say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I meant mentally all that stuff. Um, yeah, I really am looking forward to just really getting this, seen, this team get to full strength, and it's interesting that we may not see it at really full strength, probably until beginning of the year. Uh, once we get, I mean, I'm looking at, if all goes well with brawny's return, maybe he spends december Getting back up into up to speed. In the meantime, uh, vince gets back up to speed by playing some games, uh, in the preseason, and then in january we have a full roster, everyone's healthy, everyone's up to speed, everyone's acclimated to system, and then I think the sky's the limit from there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, agree, um, one other thing too, and we saw this in both games, um, but you know it was a difference in, in the bakersfield game, um, going back to Kansas state sellers just really kind of was taking outside shots, which is his game. And then bakersfield, um, he started to go to the basket. Oh, you know more. And we, we, we, we saw it against Kansas state in that one where he tried to climb up, that the big guy against Kansas. But he seems to make it more of a. He seems to be Understanding better, like okay, if they're gonna just um, you know, if they're gonna give me the, you know, if I'm gonna be able to get to pass somebody here, I gotta take advantage of it Rather than just settling for jumpers.
Speaker 1:Now, I like that it's gonna pay off and he's got a couple eaty baskets. Yeah, absolutely, he's starting to. I mean, he's, he's, he's kind of has his spots on the floor. Um, there's a spot on the left baseline, inside the three-point line that he likes to shoot from. He likes to shoot two pointers from from the baseline. Um, he, that's kind of one of his favorite spots and then, and then I think he's he, you know just the little runners from 10 feet are Five to 10 feet are also, I think, in his repertoire. So, and I think, like I said, I think he's more explosive this year and a bit stronger. He can absorb contact better than he was able to last year, which I think Is going to be a big difference for him this year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, he just I just he looks like you're older and bigger.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's talk about the metrics of the last couple games. Um, right now, for the season, according to bousskar, which is, uh, uscbasablecom's and buck metrics, uh, proprietary analytics For college basketball, joshua morgan is right now leading the team with a 23.0 Bousskar rating, followed by boogie ellis at 11.2. Harrison hornery 8.2. Isaacallier 7.0. Isaassellers 5.3. Dj robin 4.6. Kajani right 4.3. Brandon gardener 2.5. Kobe jotson 0.2. And then vinson yuchuka with a minus 2.5, an erranton page minus 3.7, of course, hugely influenced by this last game. But do you want to talk about their individual games?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, first of all, I, you know, as much as I just praised, uh, mike mcgummery and I like him doing games Um, clearly he's not checking out the buck metrics when he said well, I don't know if you want to run your offense through josh morgan Um, he's, he's by far our most productive player in in a cumulative statistic, such as as bousskar. Yeah, um, you know. Moreover, his turnover percentage is is only 11.3 percent, which is really really good for a big man who doesn't, you know, you don't look at him and think this guy's got awesome hands, or this guy's, you know, amazing. You know, uh, ball handler or passer? Um, it's just, I think it's just understanding. Going back to, you know what assistant coach caris told us? Um, you know, understanding what makes you a good player. Um, and going back a little further, you know, like I mentioned in the season preview pod Early in last season, don mcclain said to morgan you know, after very specific plays, just do that, um, and I think that he's really understanding what his just do that is and just then how to build on top of that.
Speaker 2:Um, he's hit a couple of jumpers, but they've, you know, I haven't seen him take a single shot. Um, I take that back. I haven't seen him take a jumper. That I'd say well, not his game. Um, you know, sometimes late in the clock he might take a, you know, an off balance shot, but that just kind of goes with the territory sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he seems to have a pretty Reasonable repertoire of shots that he selects from. He doesn't really do anything too crazy and because he has great guards to get the ball to him and put him in great situations, he's actually gotten a lot. I think he's just got a lot better at finishing Down low and also just converting Um baskets where he has size advantages and position. So he's doing a good job of that. But it's hard. He's not really the guy that can carry the team without. He's gonna. He's gonna help convert Um. You know the end result of what what the guards do and the ball handlers do, but he's. But I don't think he's a guy that we can Uh run the team through Uh, even if his uh analytics look good.
Speaker 2:Agree, agree. Um, I would say that the last game might be a little bit of a different situation.
Speaker 2:Yeah you're down, you know score. You know score number one and score number three, um, you know. The other thing about him is bpo 100 is a 69.3, which is just, you know, through the roof for a big man again, and we're not talking to a big man like yannis who you know can do it all. Um, or wendy, um, it's just he's playing so smart and I think this also speaks to um Really that that that ability that collier has to create for him too, um, well, he's he's shooting 82 for the field, right, yeah, 14 of 17 from the field.
Speaker 1:He is, he's. He's averaging 10 points a game, he's averaging six boards and he's averaging Uh well, he's got seven, seven blocks. So he's averaging over two, 2.3, 2.3 blocks per game and he's only got three turnovers, like you said. Now, yeah, I think it's one of those judgment calls where I think, when you have these plays where Isaiah Collier is kind of zipping these bullet passes to to Morgan, they're they're giving the, they're giving those, they're giving those turnovers to to Collier earlier.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, yeah, but these are sometimes judgment calls, you know so. But yeah, he's definitely like you said, he's playing the kind of game where he's not like being detrimental, except for except for the issue, you know, with the hands like, which was an issue last game. But again, when you pack, I think a lot of that was the result of packing in the paint, yeah, and lots of traffic down there and his balls flying, flying through there and that's that can often be really hard to snatch a ball through the traffic. But he's also not fouling very much. He's only got seven fouls in three games which had, you know, I've done a problem and he's doing all this in 24 minutes a game.
Speaker 2:Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1:So, like you said, I mean, I think this is all meshes out really well with your metrics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's. That's an interesting. I might just kind of do a this is interesting thing you mentioned he has as many blocks as personal fouls, which is kind of unheard of. I don't know how common that is. That might happen for a game but over a span of three games.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:That's that's.
Speaker 1:that's that's just discipline and understanding exactly what you can and can't do on the on the defensive end, and it's also showing that he's maybe taking fewer, fewer bad chances at blocks and also that he's getting more respect as a shop locker, now that he's been around the league a few times now.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, agree. So you know from a metrics standpoint as well. You know just to just to kind of show just how rough it is against Bakersfield Arbuscar, just for that single game was a 42.7. Yeah, yeah, because everything went right and everything did not go right against Irvine, that actually dipped to a negative eight point nine. I think that has kind of created a new verb which would be called that we were sub-recode in that game.
Speaker 1:I love it. Sub-recode. So yeah, that was that was really rough, it just maybe you can call it like maybe we just call that Sean Farnham.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, Shots fired across town.
Speaker 1:He's an excellent commentator.
Speaker 2:He is yeah, that's, yep, that's, which reminds me that it's like what you said.
Speaker 1:What you said, maybe some of these, some of these good quality pack 12 announcers will get hired by the Big 10 going forward to. Yeah, we'll see to do to do those West Coast games.
Speaker 2:I hope so.
Speaker 1:It would make sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just amazing with with how many things have been less than great with the pack 12. Just really, just the hoops, colors guys have been just awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and especially, I don't think there's, there's, no. Is there no Bill Walton this year?
Speaker 2:This is his last year, from what I understand I heard. I heard a little discussion with Dave Pash, his broadcast partner and partner, and he said, yep, bill is ready to go, but it sounds like this is going to be his last season, which which makes sense.
Speaker 1:Right, well, there's what conference would. Would hire him.
Speaker 2:I just a lot of sports conference.
Speaker 1:Right, maybe, maybe a wrestling.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ok, so OK, so we're looking at. So USC's Buscar for the game against UCI was a minus eight point nine and for the season it's now at fifty three point nine and the opponent total is at twenty five point three and we have a game coming up on Sunday against Brown, again in the Galen Center. Now Brown is significantly weaker than UC Irvine according to the analytics, not maybe as bad as Cal State, bakersfield, but they're ranked two hundred and forty second by Ken Palm, who predicts that we will come home with a 20 point victory. From what I hear, usc were most, we're most. It's looking good that we're going to have everybody back for the Thanksgiving tournament.
Speaker 1:I don't know if everyone's going to be back for the Brown game. Maybe we get I'm guessing we get one of those guys back for the Brown game, depending on how things go and rehab. But obviously getting both back would be nice just to get everybody back in the swing of things. But I think we can count on Seton Hall and USC being a game where the Trojans are at full strength.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. I was. I was curious about that. You know a little specifics on Brown Now that we've got a few data points in their three games this season. They haven't really played a terrible tough schedule and yet they're their BP. A 100 for the season is a 40.2 which, for some reference, that's actually what we held Bakersfield to for that game.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they look to be about a Bakersfield level opponent. Yeah, and they've got a much longer way to come then. Then Cal State Bakersfield did to go to that game, so that's a bit more of a road game for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they also. They're. They're their opponent so far of a boot, a BPO 149.3, so they're. That differential of nine is really significant. It looks like they're best two players, the ones that you know. If I'm just kind of doing some some metric scouting here, it looks like the one that I fear the most is a guy named Landon Lewis. I don't know if you're familiar with him. I think he went to Harvard Westlake.
Speaker 1:Oh did he.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's just, I think is a sophomore. Yeah, he's their most efficient BPO 59.2. This is rough. His Buscar is 8.6, which leads the team, which you see where. That would put him on USC. That would put him, I think, in about. Third third yeah, just a port of just ahead of Harrison Hornry. Yeah, so that's rough and he doesn't even start.
Speaker 1:I don't get that, but you know, maybe it could be just one of those things where that's you know, the more people's usage go up Sometimes. Sometimes they don't. They don't play as well when the usage goes up.
Speaker 2:So yeah, very fair.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think, yeah, if you look at their roster they don't have anybody bigger than six, eight. Nana, a wusu ananae, is six, eight to twenty. Caliwania six, eight to fifteen. Those are their two leading players as far as not necessarily efficiency metrics, but but in the overall, just in the national rankings. There's also a guard named Kino Lilly, and, and those are the three highest, you know the guys who are used the most. But yeah, this should be Assuming we have everybody back. I think, even I think, even if we had the same lineup last game, we would be able to beat Brown, because Just the shock of not having to do it for the first time and, you know, having that same expectation going in again, being able to adjust USC would be fine, but obviously you want to not have to go through that grind again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, so I'm not actually has their most opportunities. So basically, from what I see, he's, you know he's used the most, even though he's six eight. This is interesting, I'll be interested to see him in person. His rebounds per 40 is fourteen point three, which Is better than I guess I'd say, the full sample size Players on our team. Vince actually is at sixteen point oh, but I'm not gonna read too much into ten minutes. Yeah, and kind of a very weird game, as I was characterized it and it was saying on a actually has two point one blocks per 40, which is pretty impressive for a six eight guy. Now, again, they haven't played great teams and he might have been the tallest player On the court for the for the whole time too. So I think with that rebounding number I it'll be a nice, a nice little test at least I guess I'd characterize it for our big, just to make sure we can. We can hang with the defensive rebounding improvements that we've seen in the last two games.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So before we Kind of move toward the end of the show, I wanted to ask you about what do you think about the line-ups Going forward? As far as we have that, we have a set three Isaiah Collier, boogie Ellis, kobe Johnson. Josh Morgan doesn't look like he's going to give up his starting spot anytime soon and I think, as you know, as long as he's playing this well, it doesn't really matter If he starts or not. I think he will. I'm saying he will keep starting. But if Vince can get up to speed and contribute 15, 20 minutes a game, then it'll be a good position.
Speaker 1:But then you have that four spot and so now you've got a few options. There's DJ Robin, who is really not a traditional four. You've got Kejani Wright, who is more of a traditional four but has some limitations that are that are Exposed in certain line-ups versus other line-ups. And then you've got Harrison Hornery, who showed some things against UCI that you know. He showed an ability to to rebound and play some defense. Yet three block shots he has five block shots in the year mostly helps side block shots. But Do you think about Shaking up the line of a bit, maybe bringing Rodman up the bench or D R? Do you worry that that with Rodman? You know this is the guy you you brought over to transfer and is he you know? Do you? How do you manage? I see him. He seems like the kind of guy who wouldn't mind coming off the bench for a few games.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I really like this question and if you had asked, if you would ask me this before the Irvine game, I would have said, well, what's wrong with Aronson page? Yeah, and then he, just he went to. He went kind of in a full, full-blown freshman mode, yeah, but I'd like his rebounding and his. You know his rebounding is gonna get him minutes, you know if he just kind of you know if we can deal with the freshman moments, but I don't know if I'd start him yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think he real quick on him. I think he came into that game. You know starting him in that game. I think that he came in. I think he thought that game was gonna be a lot easier than it ended up being and I think he just sort of was coasting. He's much more effective right now coming up the bench and sort of getting acclimated seeing what's going on versus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm gonna put an X next to his name. This is an interesting exercise. I like this. The next one, I'm gonna say to your point, I really like Kejani, right, because he's he's he. I wouldn't say he's a. Let's just steal some minutes with him. I think when you have him against other teams backups, it's, it's a big advantage, whereas if you have him going against other team starters, you're just hoping for a draw, which I don't like, so I wouldn't start him. I Boy, this is weird. It's going to take me to an answer I wasn't expecting, which makes us a really good exercise. I kind of like Rodney coming off the bench and just gives us more, more, more backcourt depth, especially right now, is you know, maybe just in the next game? Yeah, since we clearly needed that.
Speaker 1:So then you start. So then you start a hornery.
Speaker 2:I guess yeah, and the thing is that actually gives you you know, more experience in the backcourt. Now he's not a point guard, obviously, but you know Rodney has played a ton of minutes at the Pac-12 level, so it's just, it's nice having at least that experience coming off the bench, which otherwise I mean it was just nervous time.
Speaker 2:A lot of the times you just you know it's in that Irvine game. Going back to it, I mean I don't know how you felt Just seemed like every time Collier went to the bench it's like OK, hold your breath, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:You just didn't know what you were going to get. Probably didn't go as bad as it could have gone. To be honest, they just couldn't get any offense.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I think what they're going to have to do is have those main three guys, call your Ellis and Johnson, and then, with the remaining two guys, you know, forget about who you're starting with, but think about more like, what combinations are you playing these guys in?
Speaker 1:And I think that as long as you have those main first three guys, one through three, on the court, I think you should pair. Like, I think when you have Morgan as center, you don't necessarily need Hornary out there to provide, you don't need someone else to provide offense necessarily. So maybe that's when you pair Kejani with Josh Morgan at times, and then when you have one of those three go out, that's when you bring Harrison Hornary in to pair with Josh Morgan. And then, if you have but if you have Vince Iwachuku in there, right, who's probably maybe a little bit less of a defensive guy but I'm probably more offensive minded then you can bring Kejani in, because he's more of a defensive stalwart, right, and then, anyway, you know something like that. And then maybe you bring in Erranton Page just whenever one of those two guys you know, either Morgan or Vince or Ty is tired, or just, you know, whenever you can find a matchup advantage.
Speaker 2:But you know, yeah, I think the other variable there too is Morgan's rebounding seemed much improved in the last game and that helps a lot, because if it reverts back to what we saw in the first game against Kansas State, I get a little nervous pairing him with Hornary, I just wonder about the rebounding. That takes me back to Page. Yeah, this is an interesting question, I think. Going back to, like we said, about a lot of the you know who plays, it's like it's really going to depend on the opponent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think if you were to look at the sweep of the season, like, where do you think, where would you ideally want the team to be, ideally, if you really like wanted to look at it from just a pure talent standpoint, if Erranton Page could be the starting forward and be a power forward and be a and do well there, at least not be a liability, be someone who's like rapidly improving.
Speaker 1:If he was able to start a power forward alongside Josh from Morgan, then you've got someone who has a really nice skill set. It could do a lot of do some stretch forward things, in the same way that Harrison Hornary theoretically, you know, could theoretically, mind you, and then but also brings rebounding and also brings you know size. So you could, ideally you could start Erranton Page down the road, like when you get to February with Josh or with Vince, if Vince keeps you know improving as we get into February, and then you would bring Rodman up, robin would be six man and then you know, seventh guy at the bench would be Kejani and then you've got, you know, oziah and Brony Is kind of how. If you could like paint a picture of how you wish it would go, because you want these guys to be the ones to develop, because they have the most. The highest ceiling it would be. You would want Vince and Erranton to be the two bigs down, though.
Speaker 2:Agree. You know there's one little dynamic here that remains unresolved and it's interesting in that last season, because of the injuries at different times, we never really saw a full health Josh Morgan and a full health Vince play at the same time. It seemed that Vince really was able to, you know, was at full strength and at you know, playing his kind of ball. Once Morgan got hurt and then, if you remember, in the first pod I did it's like I'm sure that Vince got hurt in that Oregon State game. It just took him a long time for him to be shelved because his playing went down so much. So you'd never had I don't think we saw last year really kind of the settling about okay, who you know, when they're at full strength, which one should start, and that's it's interesting. There's not a logical end game to okay, once they're both full strength, it's X over Y.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's, but absolutely. But if you did have one guy who was, if they both, if Vince keeps developing, he has the higher ceiling right, he's the more talented guy. So if you eventually start Vince and you could start Arrington, then your backups I mean just coming in with Morgan and with Morgan and Kejani, those are a nice group of reserves. Now maybe you don't want to not start Morgan just because he's a senior and he's got and he's a veteran player and he's earned his position. And even though Vince might have a higher ceiling, there may be some games where it's just not Vince's game. So I'm totally fine with Morgan starting, but I really like the idea of those two rotating and then you come in and really Arrington playing that other position.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great, and the other thing too, and it kind of speaks to a good problem to have. But you make a plausible case for possibly not starting the player who is by far our most efficient and most productive on the season. Good problem to have.
Speaker 1:Well, right and through yeah, exactly Exactly through three games. It's just a matter of using. You have to use Josh Morgan the right way and you can't like. You have to use him just the right amount, because if you use him too little you don't benefit from everything he brings to the table, but if you use him too much the wheels start to come off a little bit right. So you just have to kind of find the exact right spot for him and once he's in that little, that niche of between 18 and 22 minutes, I'd say somewhere in there, and he doesn't have to worry about fouling out and he's fresh. I think that's what you're aiming for with Josh.
Speaker 2:Morgan, yeah, yeah, that's when you officially become a team. That is really no fun to play.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly. Well, hopefully USC will become that team again soon with the return of Boogie LS and Kobe Johnson. I think that'll pretty much do it for the latest episode of the Dunk City Podcast. Mark, do you have anything else you wanna add?
Speaker 2:going into the Brown game on Sunday no, just looking forward to it and fight on everyone.
Speaker 1:Fight on everybody. We'll see you back after the Brown game previewing the Thanksgiving game against Seaton Hall, and then, of course, the winner of that game will play, the winner of, I think, oklahoma and Iowa. So happy Thanksgiving If you don't hear us before then. So fight on.