Chris and Mark talk about what ails USC basketball, hand out letter grades to the roster for the non-league schedule, and conclude that it's up to Kobe Johnson to rise to the occasion.
The Dunk City Podcast is the podcast of record for the USC basketball community. You can find all episodes at DunkCityPod.com, USCBasketball.com or on Apple Music, Spotify and Amazon. Contact us at USCBasketball.com@gmail.com.
Chris and Mark talk about what ails USC basketball, hand out letter grades to the roster for the non-league schedule, and conclude that it's up to Kobe Johnson to rise to the occasion.
The Dunk City Podcast is the podcast of record for the USC basketball community. You can find all episodes at DunkCityPod.com, USCBasketball.com or on Apple Music, Spotify and Amazon. Contact us at USCBasketball.com@gmail.com.
Welcome to the Dunk City podcast. Okay, happy holidays everyone. Welcome back to the Dunk City podcast brought to you by uscbasketballcom. Chris Houston here with Mark Bax from Thanks for joining us. It's been a rough couple weeks for USC basketball. The Trojans are now six and five after splitting a road trip down south, losing to Auburn by 16 and coming back and beating Alabama State by 20. Mark, what do you think about where USC stands right now after this latest road trip?
Speaker 2:Wow, so I think we spent 11 games to get to a kind of a still TBD, If that sounds fair to you. That's kind of where I stand in my mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think there's some things that have been determined. Which is one of those things is this is probably not the team we hope for. I think we can settle on at this point. I don't think any of us thought USC would start out six and five. I think my scenario was. My worst case scenario was eight and three, nine and two, and certainly it's possible that with a few twists and turns, that could still be the case. But I do think that the sort of vision we had of this year, in which USC was going to flirt around the elite of college basketball, is probably off the table. Would you agree?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's no longer in the future of this team. But how far off we are from that TBD.
Speaker 1:Right, no, I agree with that. When you, when we say to be determined, I guess there are some things we could talk about that need to happen for this team to show success, and there are some things that are probably going to happen by virtue of natural inertia. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2:Natural inertia. Oh boy, that doesn't sound promising. Well, you want to flush that a little bit?
Speaker 1:Well, to the extent. For instance, Isaiah Collier, I think the stipulation is probably that he'll improve with reps. Arrington Page, the stipulation is probably that he's more likely to improve with increased reps as the season goes on. What you can account for is you know, will Isaiah Collier regress as the season goes on? And I think there's always a possibility of something like that happen. For example, we've seen a weird regression with Kobe Johnson and DJ Rodman, but I think we've seen enough of most of the players to get a sense that they're going to develop a little bit steady, but not necessarily as much as we need them to develop for the team to reach new heights.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fair, I think when you say natural inertia, you might have been meaning regression to the mean. I think that's the case for Collier, since he had that blow up against. Was it the Oklahoma game where he just couldn't stop turning the ball over? I think that was the game right, you think so? Yeah, yeah, since then he's really kept the turnovers down and then he got bit again against Auburn.
Speaker 2:What I want to do is just do a little breakdown and I'll have this next time of how he's doing against the better defenses in terms of turnover percentage and really what that means in terms of the team's production. We saw that a little bit of that. You know, take a nasty turn against Auburn, but I think overall I'm pretty confident that we'll see just a regression to his natural mean, which is very high. But I need a good data point against a good defensive team in the conference and not to spoil the next pod. But you know, a week from now we'll be going over a little more detail. Just you know what, the layout of the Pac-12, what we're expecting from each team, and at that point I'll probably have a couple of you know flags planted about. Ok, I want to see it against team X, y and Z here Right.
Speaker 1:So I want to talk a little bit about some strange I shouldn't say strange, because this is college basketball and all this stuff happens all the time but I want to talk about some disappointing or bad trends that have been happening with various players. Let's start with Collier, For example. He is only two out of his last 14 three point attempts, which is a huge struggle for him. Obviously, he's now down to 30% from three point range. After he was at one point I think before this dive he was actually at around 42%. He was doing very well. Of course he wasn't shooting a whole lot, but he had definitely, you know, been at least pretty good from that distance, you know. And then you look at Kobe Johnson, who is he did hit a three against Alabama State. He went one for four against Alabama State, but he is now three for his last 20 from three point range.
Speaker 1:Okay, boogie Ellis has not had as much of an issue. He of course got hurt against Alabama State. We're hoping that he'll be back in the next game against Oregon. But he went over three against Alabama State and part of that was, I think, just you know, he never really got in the groove in that game. Then you go to Harrison Hornery and he actually made two, three pointers against Alabama State. Hopefully that knocks him out of his of his slump, but he had a mother of a slump. The previous oh I think the previous seven games he had gone two for 19 before going two for three against Alabama State.
Speaker 1:So USC, about I don't know four or five games ago, was was sitting on a pretty nice trajectory when it came to three point shooting. I think USC had gotten up to around close to 38% as a team. Since then the team, the team averages, plummeted back down to 34.9% and a lot of that has been kept afloat because Boogie has still has still been pretty good from three point range. He's. He was up at 48%, now he's down to 44%. And DJ Rodman has been actually pretty steady there he's he's sitting at 37%.
Speaker 1:And Osia Sellers has shown some overall improvement. He had been in the 20s for much of the year, now he's up to 34.6%. You got to wonder if maybe he's figured out a bit, but Isaiah Collier 30.3%. Kobe Johnson 28.2%. Harrison Hornery 26.5%. So you, I think these are areas where, where I would, I would say these are surprising developments as far as in this area and and luckily, I think these are still naturally, naturally good shooters, but it sucks that they all sort of went on a dive at the same time and and, as a result, usc. I think it's a big reason. Usc is 65 right now. Yeah, the the.
Speaker 2:The one thing that sticks out to me in that group is Collier, and not to pick on the guy, but he can do so much more. I, I, I'm not particularly excited when I see him take a three pointer, unless it's late in the shot clock. He can do so much more that you know I, he might be thinking, okay, you know, and you and I I think I both said it boy, he makes a three pointer. It's just, you know, the sky's the limit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I you know, maybe he's got that in the back of his mind about yeah, I can make this shot and he's trying to prove it, but he's too valuable just to waste opportunities. Yeah, Earlier in the shot, clock on three pointers I just and there's other guys that can make it, I agree, I think at any point in time not to spoil kind of a point later, but if I think at any point in time you're going to have either Boogie or Isaiah on the floor, I'm much happier trying to create something for them outside.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Rather than just an early kind of well, it's open, let's see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think, I think he has to if he's going to be left open. I think he has to shoot the shot, though, because I think we're. It's very important that if he, if he shoots well enough from outside, it's going to obviously open a lot of things up. What I'd like to see out of Isaiah Collier is some things we haven't seen in a few games. Early in the season he shot a few more mid-range shots. He posted up a bit more.
Speaker 1:Now it seems like almost every shot is either a drive or a three point shot, and I know from an analytic sense that you know the two point shots aren't as efficient, but he seemed to have a pretty good touch at the at the elbow of the free throw line area. He, you know he seems to be good with his back to the basket and using his footwork to to get shots off posting up. Obviously, he's not always facing smaller guards, but there have been some small guards he's gone up against. I'm surprised that that this opportunity to just use him as a scoring option in and around the rim hasn't been utilized more. So, yeah, I'd like to see a little bit more of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I I agree he's so strong. I don't think he necessarily needs somebody that's a lot smaller than him. It's just somebody that he's stronger than he can just kind of bully ball him.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The other thing too. I forget which game it was. I'm not saying maybe it was the Brown game where he was able to get kind of an, a weird spot, almost like a at a low post spot, just driving there. Yeah, and I don't know if you remember this. We didn't touch on it after that game but I made a note about. He was able to do some interesting kind of like interior almost in place of big to big passing that we'd like to see.
Speaker 1:I think it was UCI. Actually, I think it was the game where he had to. He had to go down the score line. He was doing a lot of different things, kind of showing up the repertoire.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I would like to see more of that. But I think to me what has overall been the theme of this disappointing out of conference schedule is just the passivity of the team. For example, this has been the theme Boogie Ellis, for example, not taking that shot against Long Beach State, right, isaiah Collier kind of I think. I think his aggression has sort of been kept in check a bit Because he's trying not to turn it over as much Kobe Johnson is. Is has had a level of passivity which is it's really kind of befuddling. He the last two games he's not had a steal. Now that's the first time since his freshman year. So all of last year he did not go more than one game without a steal. Okay, he didn't have back to game, back to back steal this games until this last two games, and so that's, you know, 30 games plus 1040 games, and this is the first time he's done that. So he's been weirdly passive. On the defensive side he's just not not doing as much and I don't know if it's because his he's still hurting from his injury that he had. He's just not the same. Maybe he's playing through it, maybe he doesn't have the same pep in his step, but something's off with him.
Speaker 1:Um, dj Rodman is has been the the most passive player that I've seen. This is the guy who's supposed to come in and be a blue collar type to do all these kind of little dirty, nasty things you need to do for the team, and he's done little bits of it here and there, but he's he's so passive in his game I mean he's he's not shooting very much. He doesn't seem to be mixing it up down low much now against Alabama State. I think he must have had a talking to because he was definitely going in there and he got 10 rebounds.
Speaker 1:He shot seven, seven balls, which is which was the the most shots he'd taken in since the Oklahoma game, when he shot a season high nine. But before that he'd shot two, four, five and one. I mean one shot against Auburn and just not a factor. I mean it's almost like he's been content to to sort of be in the background. Now, I understand a lot of that could just be being a veteran player who wants to not enforce himself on a team that has a lot of scoring options. So I think he's, you know, maybe trying to pick his spots, but I think he fell into a trap of doing that so much that outside of his occasional three point attempts he sort of stopped doing doing all the other things.
Speaker 2:That just becomes his mindset. I think is kind of you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and and. Really, if you look at the players, boogie Ellis is having the kind of year we thought he would have coming in. Isaiah Collier is pretty much having, on balance, the kind of year we thought he would have coming in. He's having a little freshman struggles, but I think we thought he might have a bit. Vincent Iwachuku, at this stage in the year, is probably about where, where we thought he would be, not where we would hope he would be, but probably about where we thought he'd be, given you know all the time. Ozai Sellers is probably about where we thought he would be.
Speaker 1:Josh Morgan is basically who. He is a shop locking specialist. Brownie is a wild card and he shows some promise and you don't know what's going to happen there. Kejani Wright, a guy who is depends on the matchups, depends on the team that they're facing, whether he's going to be effective, and I think the consistency is a factor with him about, but about where we thought. Arrington Page same thing. The only guys so far who have had anomalous, anomalous performances based on their past production is Kobe Johnson, dj Rodman and Harrison Hornery, and so if we can get those three guys back up to speed, I think this team could be pretty good.
Speaker 2:Agree. A few thoughts in response. Anomalous production as far as Kobe goes, yeah, but to your earlier point, anomalous mindset. J Williams made a good point about he's just not getting up and up in a guy's defensively. To your point about those steals, it's not just like okay, he's just not you know where are those bad luckers?
Speaker 1:He's not getting deflections.
Speaker 2:Where are those hands? He's not, Yep, Exactly the active hands. And he actually had. I remember during the Thanksgiving games he had kind of gotten like almost a little patented move where he's just like I'm just going to get my hand. I'm not going to steal it, I'm just going to kind of get my hand in the way and really frustrate and get the tie up. We saw that again and again.
Speaker 2:It's just not there and I don't know what it is. You know, I want to go back to one note I wrote to myself during the Auburn game. I actually just my note was I want somebody on this team to shove somebody on the other team or shove somebody on our own team. I don't see that. You know your point about the passivity. You know about Kobe and Rodman and, fairness, rodman is probably trying to find a role where there are a lot of scores.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go way off the grid here and I, the person that I think actually needs to get a lot more minutes because, look, he's not barking out orders, but he knows how to be assertive in the right spots, and that's Ozaia, and he's doing it very effectively and efficiently too. He's actually, I believe, second on the team in BPO or actually third behind the. You know, the classic big man you don't run stuff through, but who's not making mistakes is Kejani. He's actually our second most efficient performer when a big man doesn't turn the ball over and he gets good looks like him and he's not doing the off balance nonsense anymore. You know, he's not the Kejani of last year, he's the Kejani of the best of last year. Now again, I'm not going to run stuff through him, but you can have him finishing stuff if you're breaking down other defenses.
Speaker 2:But besides that, I think Ozaia is the one who I think, offensively after Boogie, really seems to have found his place and can knock it down, and just not just in one way. He's not just an outside scorer, he's really kind of wisen to okay. If they're going to come out on me, I can get those mid-range shots and he's really good at those too. You know, maybe he's a little bit too fearless when it's come to getting the basket and it gets a little interesting. We'll say to keep it positive. But I want more minutes from him. I'd like to see him and I think it was promising that he was. I think that might have been the earliest that we'd gone to him off the bench this season against Alabama's Steyer, am I mistaken?
Speaker 1:Yeah, potentially I think he had been brawny the first off the bench the game before, but this time it was Ozaia. I agree with you. I think, looking at his numbers, he's three of his last five from three point range. That's not a lot of attempts but it is baby steps for him. And on the year, he's nine of 26 from three point, which is 34.5. But if you take away that 0 for six outing against Irvine, which was a game where he also had to play backup minutes at the point and it was just a high pressure game for him you take that away, he's nine of 20 from three point on the year. And what is that? 45% off the top of my head.
Speaker 1:So he's shooting 45%, three you know in, except for that one game he's shooting 45%, which is, which is obviously the game. That one game matters. But but it was sort of it seemed to be an outlier, outlier of a of a situation, I agree. Actually, in a recent column I wrote for the Dunk City blog, I sort of insinuated that Ozaia Sellers probably needs to start. I thought that Kobe, the Alabama State game, would have been a good game to, to sit both Kobe and Rodman and and play Sellers and one other big next to next events just to yeah that's you know um, sorry, yeah, I agree, I'm just I was going back here, so it's looking after the Irvine game.
Speaker 2:Ozaia's BP was 45.0, which is in that Okay, that's, that's kind of a problem. He's now at 52.3, which means that incrementally he's probably in the high 50s since that game.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, that's you know. I wouldn't just say like, okay, we need to give him more minutes. I'd almost look at it like you're really doing a detriment to service the team If you're not giving him at least 20, 22 minutes a game.
Speaker 1:Well, he's getting almost 17. Yeah, so, so it's, it's not much of an adjustment I think you probably have to take, give his minutes, take the minutes from Hornery, who has been playing 19 minutes a game and at this point I think, uh, he has to. They have to really set him aside until, unless, unless they really have to play him at this point Now, it's possible that he plays a little bit better in conference play, where he's more familiar with some of the arenas and some of the players, um, but it could be that he plays worse because they're also familiar with him. So, um, but with Ozaia Sellers, uh, I think you're right, I think he's. You can definitely see a trajectory there. Now, it's not an explosive trajectory, right, it's a. It's a kind of steady trajectory up and he still does some things which which, um, which puzzled me a bit.
Speaker 1:Like he's he definitely seems to be, he seems to feel more comfortable, um, shooting off the dribble than than spotting up, for some reason, and what he'll do a lot of times is pass up an open three and, uh, and step one, you know, do a dribble, one step forward and shoot along too. He does that a lot and I think he just wants that, to shoot in that rhythm and I don't mind that so much, but I wish I think he should. He should go a little bit further. He has his. His spot is the kind of the, the, the floating jump shot, um, you know, near the middle of the key. If he can get to that range, I think that's something he could, he could get good at. But other than that, I think he really needs to to be out there to shoot those threes, um. But again, I think it's one of those situations where he's really trying to to uh use his minutes wisely and doesn't want to uh to miss a bunch of threes and get yanked.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, I'm going to go mama bear a little bit on this one Um, considering he's our second most uh efficient um backcourt producer, I'm not. I'm not going to push back too much on what he's doing. I'd rather say, okay, he's not forcing the issue, keep at it Now. Next year, if he's our number one scorer, awesome, then he gets all the all the pressure and critique that comes with it. But for a guy coming off the bench, I'm good with it.
Speaker 2:The other thing too I just uh looking at his season uh metrics, he was surprisingly efficient last season. It was because he didn't turn the ball over. I don't know if you remember that His BBO was, was, was high because it didn't turn the ball over. And you said, well, he doesn't really kind of do much of anything, which is a fair critique, but he actually, again, based on the number of opportunities and how often he turns it over, the only more efficient ball handler on this team is Boogie Ellis. That's two years in a row. Um, that's really impressive for a guy who was struggling until just, you know, maybe about five games ago, to really find his his place. Because what happens in, you know, especially when you're a scorer, a shooter like he is, you're going to try too much and do stupid stuff and turn the ball over and just do do dumb things. And he's. This is the second season in a row that he's he's. He's stayed clear of that, I. That's really promising.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, I agree. Uh, he hasn't had a game where he's had more than one turnover in the game, so that's so just going down the roster. I think this let's. I want to look at each player. How would we grade them if we were giving them grades in school? Right? Um, boogie Ellis, what do you think I'm?
Speaker 2:going to give him. I'm going to give him an A. Um, his numbers are based on. The numbers are basically a plus. I'm going to just he doesn't get the A plus because he's the. He's the senior guy on the team and and he needs to be the one to shove somebody on the court that's not a referee, our team or the other team. Just do something.
Speaker 1:I'm going to give him an A minus only because of I think this sort of dive in the last few few games is something that I know. In most cases he did as much as he could do, um, and. But if you look at it in in a Long Beach day game, I think is why I have to give him the A minus, because I think this was a really rough game for him and it was a game where he really could have, I think, helped the team if he'd been a bit more assertive. He did play 42 minutes, um, and then in the Auburn game, even though we had 22 points, uh, I thought that a lot of it was was late. He had five turnovers and I think I think the best boogie is the boogie that that comes firing out of the gate. And, like I said, with this passivity these last few games, I feel like he's been getting started a little bit late.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah fair One, one, one data plane on that. Actually, his BPO um for the Auburn game was a 45.7, which is, I mean for him. It's just like I honestly wonder if he was sick on on this road trip, um, kind of like how I I felt. I wonder if he had the same thing, because it just wasn't the self.
Speaker 1:Kind of like how most of the USC's fans felt, maybe he, maybe he had something from the fans who who were got sick watching.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Isaiah Collier. I'm going to give him a B plus for the year so far, Um, because I think, scoring wise, he's been about what I thought. I think I did a post on the board, um before the season where I sort of like fleshed out what I thought everyone would score and I think I had him around 16 points. I think I had him at 15, but he's a 16 now. He is trending downward, um, but I think he's trending downward as he's actually getting more comfortable, uh as a point guard, uh as a facilitator. In the last five games he has three games with at least six assists. So, and and though that's his season high, so far he's had, uh, out of the 11 games, he's had four games with six assists, and the first one was Kansas state, but the the the last three of those were the last five games.
Speaker 1:So, and, like you said, his turnovers have started to come down, with the exception of the Auburn game, um, so he's, but you know, because of these, I think because of being a bit more passive offensively there's that word again um, he only had 14 points against Gonzaga, 15 against Lombie state, 13 against Auburn, 11 against LMC. He hasn't scored more than 20 points since the Brown game. So he's sort of tapered off a bit. Uh, shooting wise are scoring wise, and now a part of that is is his plummet on the three point range but, and of course his also his, his dive in the free throws. So I think it's more structural rather than than um, a matter of him not getting the opportunities. So if he can fix those things he can certainly get his average back up. So I give him B plus. What do you give him?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll give him a B just because, um, I'm not to, not to harp on the same thing, but when he's, when he's not making the three pointers, um, he's not a one trick pony.
Speaker 2:I think I want a little more feel from a uh, somebody that's as highly regarded as him, and just a recognition hey, me and me, it's not my day from outside. Um, he can do other, he can do so much more. He can create, can create more, and he needs to that, um, I think that's the next step he needs to take, aside from you know, like I said earlier about planning the flag and and having a low turnover game against a really good defense, yeah, um, just just a little more feel in terms of like, okay, I've got this full, full bag of tricks and I need to know when to deploy them. Not just that I can deploy, but really when, yeah, and if I'm not, I'm not down the outside. Shot, create, you know, go to that that weird spot in the low post and and and do those things that just don't expect it. So, b for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, it's funny too and it just doesn't aside. When we're giving these grades, there's there's the grade uh, based on what their potential is. There's the grade based on just pure objectivity, you know, and then uh, I'm pure output, right. And then there's the grade based on, uh, how much they actually help the team in a way, in a sense right. So you've got to factor all those things in together. Kobe Johnson See, this is a great example. I'd say if you were, if you didn't know a lot about Kobe Johnson, you saw what he was doing, maybe you wouldn't be as down on him. You'd probably be down on his shooting percentage. But that's about it. But I'd say, because we know what Kobe Johnson is capable of, I would say I would give him a B minus on the year. So far You're more generous than I am.
Speaker 2:I'm going. I'm going C minus Wow.
Speaker 1:I mean, I can see it. Let me tell you why I? Say what did I say B minus.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the reason I'll say B minus is because he was really good for the first, I mean up until up until the first five games of the year, right, and he missed, he missed, uh, he missed a couple of games, right. So the first five games of the year he was, he was really good, I mean he was. He was averaging, I think, 15 a game. He was shooting great, he was getting assists, steals, but he was kind of like fill in the stat sheet like he's known to do. It's only really in the last four games that he's been taking this inexplicable dive. He came back a little bit against Alabama State, but still not quite. He doesn't seem comfortable, um, doing like he's been trying to score off the dribble a lot and and I don't think that's really his game, I think that's he's trying to develop it and it's it's not working and it seems to be hurting his confidence because then he's not shooting well for three point. He seems to to do better as a spot at three point shooter or as a cutter going to the basket right or just kind of are in transition. And now, to his credit, and the reason I don't ding him as much is because he's still doing some other things.
Speaker 1:He's been rebounding great right, Like the last three games. He's he's averaging uh, almost eight rebounds a game, right, and he's his assist number has gone up. In the last five games he's got 17 assists, which which for him uh is I mean, it's almost uh, uh, 1,000 rebounds a game. You know he's close to four for assists a game, which for him is very good. And the last five games and last two games he hasn't had a steal, but the previous three games he had eight steals right. So so he was still doing some stuff, but it's only in these last few games where, where his whole defensive effort has has, you know, gone to pot. So that's why I give him the b-minus, because he still had, he still is doing some other things which we need, and then, before the decline happened, he was doing pretty much everything.
Speaker 2:Great, Yep, tell me he does he Sorry, he does fill out the step sheet. You know his turnovers are very reasonable 12.8 percent. The thing that's alarming to me is his BP a 100 is 47.5. That's, you know. Last season it was in the in the low 50s. That's an alarming drop. Yeah, offensively, that's, that's pretty much, you know. Just a garden variety pack 12 garden. He's not a garden variety pack 12 guard. The other thing, and again the thing that's probably the most frustrating, like I said, my note during the Auburn game if your best perimeter defender, who can be an absolute pain in the butt when he's engaged or Healthy or whatever you want to say, if that guy, who, who can just make the other teams you know, perimeter offense and nightmare, if he's not the one to shove somebody I don't know who would be, who would be, he's got to be that guy. That's the one that absolutely would have the mindset. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:Then he's gotta be a junkyard. You got to be a junkyard dog out there in all aspects.
Speaker 1:Yep, that's a very, very well good characterization and then both him and Rodman should have been the dunk, the junkyard dogs on this team and Probably one of the bigs should have filled that role, like a Johnny would have been a good junkyard dog, but maybe he's a little. He's a little too, seems a little too nice, perhaps to cerebral, yeah, very, very cerebral. So it's just interesting about Kobe most of his struggles. Generally, most players, I think, if they're not shooting well, their defense can sort of create offense and they can kind of get snap back out of it. I think he might be the opposite.
Speaker 1:I think he's the kind of guy who he's always been known for his defense right and his he's focused so much on Improving his offense because he knows that improving his offense is going to potentially get into the NBA right.
Speaker 1:So my sense of this is that his shooting struggles have led to him not Doing as much defensively, because I feel like his body language the slump, the slump shoulders, just the lack of energy, is him sort of being down on himself, for maybe he thinks he's blowing his shot Right, maybe he wants to go up, maybe he wants to be a guy who goes after his junior year and and certainly the way he started the year.
Speaker 1:Then the way he started, the first four or five games I think he was a guy, a strong candidate to, to be drafted in the NBA in the next draft and and he started shooting poorly and and in games that you know, against prominent opponents, and I think that this caused an overall Downer effect on his game and extended to his defense and I think that you know it's probably somewhere in the back of his mind. It's like I don't want to be just a defender, I want to be, I want to do offense to, and this is now it's all not working for me and and it just seems like this might be his mentality. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:That's a very fair Analysis, I think, especially since his brother's in the NBA and he probably sees himself as, like, I'm just as good as my brother. You know I'd say Nice diagnosis, doctor. And what do we do? How do we fix it? The old luthenthal trick this guy's an excellent off-ball cutter, so run stuff early where you get him just getting easy.
Speaker 1:You know, easy cuts to the basket and easy looks and maybe that gets him engaged well, the problem too is that with that is unfortunately that teams have Basically been zoning us. Now, right, they've been zoning and doing little box-in-one stuff on Collier and trapping, and that's sort of what teams have diagnosed on how to play USC. How do you give USC trouble? Usc is a turnover prone team. If you get up in their face in the half court, you know Collier is a player who is, who is turnover prone, so you give him trouble and in these zones you don't get as much movement right. You don't get as much cutting movement. You're not able to. You know it's just. It's just not as easy.
Speaker 1:It's easier for for teams that are long to clog the passing lanes, which again is not good for teams like USC that have had a lot of turnovers. So it seems like the result of all these teams going to this, these types of defenses, is sort of Really affected Kobe's game, it's affected Isaiah Collier's game and and you know it's weird because a lot of these three-point looks are getting we're we're still getting great three-point looks. We're just not making them, which is just. You know it's concerning, but most of the time teams snap out of it and and it's kind of like when, when an economy goes into recession, the the deeper the steeper the drop, the the greater the rebound, and so yeah and so maybe, maybe, we have a great rebound and three-point shooting on the horizon and maybe it'll happen at just the right time.
Speaker 2:Are you? Are you taking any responsibility for? Because I think, I think the drop happened right after you said we're a three-point shooting team.
Speaker 1:Well, I didn't say we were a good three-point shooting team.
Speaker 1:Okay, very fair because, well, I did say we were a good three-point shooting team, but but the fact remains that the team was the team has remained on on a it's still it's still shooting threes at a terrific pace. In fact, since I wrote that article I think it was Eastern Washington and USC was averaging 22 three-point attempts. I think the point was about the attempts mostly, and the hope is that you make a lot of them, but but the clearly the focus of this team. We're shooting three-point attempts at a pace not seen since the early infield era and potentially it might, if it keeps going at this pace, it'll be more than any USC team since the early 90s.
Speaker 1:So when I wrote that article that USC was 12 to 24 against Eastern Washington. Then they went six of 22 against in Zaga, seven of 31 against Long Beach State, six of 19 against Arborette and 10 of 27 against Alabama State. So not very good shooting. But you're looking at 22 attempts, 31 attempts, 19 attempts, 27 attempts, and Alabama State is probably not a team. We needed to attempt 27 shots that, but I think we probably wanted to because because what better way to shoot yourself out of out of slumping than you know Just to go shooting? It's a team that you don't have to work. You know that you're not really truly worried about losing to.
Speaker 2:Correct. Yeah, I agree, good point.
Speaker 1:Okay so, kobe Johnson, you gave a C-minus. You said Correct. Yep, do you want to do? Do you already tell us say, why that was, or?
Speaker 2:um, he needs to be the one to shove somebody. Yeah, in short, as I familiar with this, we've discussed, yeah okay, vincent, you would shoot, I'd say.
Speaker 1:You know, based on all the factors for him, I Would say he is a C-plus Right now he's a C-plus player and I think part of the reason for that is that it's obvious he he's not played a lot of basketball in the last couple years, but there are some things that that he could do are things that he could benefit from that, I think, would enable him to get some some quick production and some rapid development and some confidence that he is Missing out on. For example, there was a play against Alabama State when I think he he I think he was blocked. He went up for a dunk or and he got blocked by a smaller player than him from behind, and he's a guy that sometimes, when he's down low, it seems like he's gonna tear the rim off, and then there are sometimes it seems like he can barely get off the ground. So so I'd like to see more consistency from him as a finisher and to go up stronger, and I also think that we probably need to try to work on Getting him the ball he's got to get.
Speaker 1:He's got to work on getting better position inside, especially deep position, because the problem is, again, he's, he's turnover prone and in the sense that, like, not necessarily turnovers, but he, he, he doesn't handle the ball well when he dribbles it. So maybe it doesn't turn in a turnover, maybe it turns into a jump ball that USC gets, or maybe it turns into, you know, a play where he has to really throw it back out at the last second. He's not getting, he's not at this point able to to get the ball in from in at the post and Get a clean shot off. He seems to have, and teams know that, so they're, they're collapsing in on him and this is causing trouble. So so, yeah, I give him a C plus because of you know also the other factors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, remind me that this is. This might be a longer discussion. Was it he or Josh Morgan who got the ball in the, you know almost, I think, in the low post he immediately kicked it out to the to the right wing, to page for that really good three-point look. Was that fence or was that Josh? Do you remember this which I'm talking?
Speaker 1:about against Alabama State. I think I want to say it was Vince who did that.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's what we need. A to your point I didn't really think about this. This is something that I'm gonna start mentally tracking is it's not the turnover, but it's the. I'm getting the ball down low and I'm I'm not decisive and I'm just ruining the possession, yeah, and it's gonna end up with a horrible shot. I'm gonna start tracking that, that's. You make a great point on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you had to assist against Alabama State. So I think there were a couple times. For the first time I really saw him pass it out. Well, I mean, you don't want to be, you don't want to be a black hole down there, right?
Speaker 1:You don't want it to be where the ball goes and it's never gonna come back out. I mean, you know he was 0-3 in the game, but he did have, he did shoot six of eight free throws. He was getting fouled a lot but he, at this point, he doesn't appear to be strong enough to To, you know, to score through those fouls, to score through contact and and that's one thing I'd like to see him like to see him work on, because a lot of those plays where he's getting fouled and sent to the line, I feel like Some of them are bunnies that that he should be able to make.
Speaker 1:So so, yeah, I think I think you're spot on with that, but don't let go up. Continue with your events, it would shoot who discussion?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I. There's a lot on Vince. First, just it's worth remembering just how rough at the start of this season was I. Just I pulled up, just and I'm not saying this is the low point for him and I'll probably do a in a column upcoming Just you know, a pre and post For after the UCI again, his BPO was 12, which is just, you know, that's, that's, that's below the the, the kid who now plays for Charlotte I think that was on our team last year, I'll just put it that way. Since then his BPO is over 50, which is really solid for a big man. That's, that's great. His turnover percentage is actually below average for a big man too. Now that again I need to kind of mentally start keeping track of the. You know the.
Speaker 2:Yeah the lack of clean, the lack of clean, clean post possessions is. Yeah, the possessions to this detriment. I guess we would say that do not result in and in him making a clean.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm sure he's learning post moves, but but I don't think he gets a chance to use any of them because because he's never able to get a clean Sort of release once he gets the ball.
Speaker 2:Yep, and, and to that point, I remember earlier in the season I think it was the brown game when we were just, um, I forget which game it was where we were just just kind of feeding to the Big men and saying, okay, create your own. And I understand the need to work on that in a game, but it's just, it's clear to me that our big men are better finishers than creators down low. Oh, definitely, definitely, and that's what we need to do. So I'm not gonna knock him for that. You know, if, if, if he's not being put in the in the position to be the best version of himself, that's not on him, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I think I will say good, I was gonna say, the thing is, I was gonna say that the the bigs in general are sort of one of the. The problems the team is having is that you never know which big is going to be playing. Well right.
Speaker 1:You know there are some teams where it's like, oh, this is a game where Vince is going to end up playing well but not Morgan, or this is a game where Kejani is gonna play well but not page, or or there's never. I don't think we've had a game this year where all the bigs were playing well. There always seems to be where when Enfield's going and trying to find the right guy, combination of guys, and he goes through the game and you can see which guys are starting to Play well in that game, depending on the matchups. Because so much of it, as Kurt Keras said when he came on, as so much of it as matchups, right, yep, yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, I agree with that, but I think a part of that is is we need to stick with the hot hand Once we do have that, and I don't know if we've done that all the time. Yeah, I mean it's, it's good.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, I thought you would finish good, no just the other thing too, is it's.
Speaker 2:There was a point earlier in the season where it appeared that rebounding was gonna be a serious, serious issue.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm and I think we've solved that and I think a huge part of that has been Vince. I mean, even when Vince was really struggling offensively he had the BPO of 12 or whatever it was. His rebounds per 40 was 16 minutes and he he has a millier Miliureated. We say in English that rebounding concern almost by himself. Just the more minutes he's played, the the rebounding. It's not become a concern at all. If you look at the Auburn game, I think we actually out rebounded Auburn on both ends, offensively and defensively.
Speaker 2:We did yeah and you know there's a lot to be said for that. It's not the most glamorous stat, but you know how? How much did we see in that Kansas State game? The one thing was like, oh my god, the offensive rebounding for the other teams. It's just it's and we're not seeing that anymore. So I'm gonna give him a lot of credit for that. In summary, your honor, I'm gonna give him a B just because I really like the trajectory of his efficiency and you know he I'm not gonna disagree with any of the you know the issues that you've said, but I just I think that trajectory is there and I think the more minutes that he gets, you know, the better for the team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I agree, and I think With when it comes to the bigs, you, you want to see some consistency. So because it affects, it affects the, the guards, right, it affects who, them playing together, right. So if you're just shuffling in all these bigs and some of them are at varying levels of development and some of them don't play well every game, or they are, you know, it just depends on what phase of the moon is is so that does hurt kind of the overall ability of the team to get into a flow. But I will say this I think you're completely right about the rebounding. I don't think we're I still don't think we're a great rebounding team, but we have taken that issue and made it not as big of an issue and I think that a lot of that is also because of the guards who've really been focusing on rebounding.
Speaker 1:Kobe Johnson is leading the team in rebounds, right, and he has really since, even especially the last three games, has really hit the board hard. But you know, rebounding can also be a misleading stat, as you know, and rebounding, more than any of the stats, I think in basketball is more about the vibes, right, it's about the vibes you it's. Does it feel like we're getting the right. It's getting the right rebounds when you need it, because a lot of those in some games it's like we out rebounded Auburn, but how many of them were when the game was, you know, out of hand, not necessary you know?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, the right rebound is to cap off an awesome defensive possession, and I don't know if we had any of those against Auburn, so I don't think we were gonna get that vibe at all Exactly.
Speaker 1:So yeah, rebounding is mostly vibes, so okay. So you gave Vince a B. Osia Sellers, I'm going to give him a solid B right now, for who he is and you know what he's supposed to mean to the team, and it's B with a, b with a bullet. We talked about him, so I'm not gonna go too much into him already.
Speaker 2:We might call this, this episode, the divorce, since you and I are just different, so I'm giving him an A. Oh wow, he was at a. He let's not forget how, how horrible he was in the Irvine game, and it just that's when a lot of guys who basically are still not proven can just go south and just check out for the season and like head to the portal at this time and he's been, probably, aside from Boogie, our best and most reliable score on a per possession basis.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, yeah, the numbers bear it out for sure, and he's. You know, the reason I don't grade him higher is because he just hasn't. He's played well, but he hasn't. His impact hasn't always been felt Like he's played well against mostly lesser opponents, although he did. He did do well against Auburn, but again, that was pressures, were you?
Speaker 1:know, we're getting beat pressures off Auburn's not playing as tough a deep although they played a very tough defense most of the way through but a lot of it was like, hey, we don't know this guy, maybe we're not gonna play him as hard. We're up 20. It's like, do you know what I mean? And so he took advantage of that and he played very well against Bakersfield, played very well against Eastern Washington, and I'm still. The reason why I'm holding off is because because there he just needs to. He just needs to show up in the Pac-12. I think that's gonna be very fair.
Speaker 1:What he can, where he can really, you know, earn that grade. Okay, so we disagree there. Joshua Morgan, I would give him a, either a B minus or a C plus, but probably I would probably at this point give him a C plus because he he is. Obviously, when he gets his opportunities, he does convert down low. He was shooting 82%, at one point he's down to 64%, but he doesn't shoot a lot right. He's one, two, three, four, five, six on the team in field goal attempts. I mean, arrington Page only has five fewer attempts and I don't know if that says more about Page, or in 12 minutes versus Morgan in 21 minutes, or if that says more about Morgan. Obviously, page is a guy who's not shy about shooting Joshua Morgan. So anyway, he doesn't take bad shots, so that's good. But it's also a situation where he doesn't give you more either and his free throws have been about where what they've always been.
Speaker 1:He's scoring a little bit less than he did last year, but that's in part because there's more bigs around him and he's getting, you know, probably fewer minutes, especially the last few games, and he's only averaging 4.2, I'm sorry, five, five boards per game. So I mean it comes out to 10 per 40, which you know you like to see him do a little more. He's got 30 blocks right, so he's averaging close to three blocks per game. Set the USC record against Seton Hall with 10. But he's just. You know, he plays solid defense, he's a great shot blocker, but he doesn't give you much more beyond that and you hoped for.
Speaker 1:He showed some things at times last year where you really think, okay, he might start to develop an offensive game and I don't know if his lack of opportunities is just the result of how the team is structured this year or it's just a matter of him needing a large sample size to really show his stuff. And then you're just not gonna get that when you're averaging less, but you're basically about three shots, four shots per game. You know You're just not gonna get that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, amazingly, I think Morgan's probably been the biggest source of discussion and debate on the board and your pause kind of goes to that too. I don't think there's a simple answer. I'm gonna kind of, I think I'm gonna split the difference and go B minus. You know, I think there might have been a little bit of fool's gold because he was so efficient at the beginning of the season and to that point, what's concerning to me is his BPO 100 is at 49.6. And considering how high it was before, he's really become a lot less efficient in the last handful of games. And that's concerning.
Speaker 2:Now, maybe some of that is Vince getting the start and he needs to mentally adjust to that and he's not sure kind of how he does. Maybe it's kind of the interior version of DJ Rodman, but he's not let the defense slip. And that's talking to myself and giving a B for a B plus. Well, here's what's crazy In the last two games against Auburn, in Alabama State, Auburn, he had 9.2 blocks per 40. In Alabama State, he had 8.4. So even though you know again, it's easy for a guy just to mentally check out when his role is reduced and he's not doing on a defensive end and defense is where you're gonna see that kind of check out happen first, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, without a doubt. But I think the problem you've seen is obviously his minutes have gone down. He was averaging, you know, he never played less than 19 minutes. In the first five games played as many as 30 minutes against Irvine, 28 against Seton Hall. But the last five games 16, 18, 19, 14, 19.
Speaker 1:19 is about 18 and 19 is maybe about right. Right, because he does bring things to the table that some of the other bigs don't. But at some point you also have to think, okay, this is his last year If we're not seeing signs of fifth year veteran. Putting it all together, because I think really, on the rebounding, having zero board against Gonzaga, two against Seton Hall, and again going back to the passivity theme, one attempt against zero, attempts against Brown in 19 minutes, one attempt against Seton Hall, one attempt against Oklahoma, two attempts against Long Beach State, two attempts against Auburn. Now again, situations govern all this stuff and part of this I guess I can't. On the one hand, people complain that he's not scoring and then, the other hand, people also complain when he tries to score.
Speaker 1:So so it's kind of like he's kind of in a bit of a dam. If he does, dam if he doesn't.
Speaker 1:Situation right now Everyone's fine with him shooting as long as he makes it right, and so so that's why he's being very judicious about his shot selection, because he realizes that, hey, I'm not, really there's so many scores on this team I'm not really in position to do that. But, and which is a defensible thing. But if you're not just working like a dog on getting those boards and last three games he's done pretty well on the boards he's had he's averaging over five boards per game on, you know, on like 17 minutes per game. Right, so he's doing pretty well. But he just definitely just again needs to be another one of those junkyard dogs down there. And now again he looks like a very nice guy. So I don't know if that's in his nature, but I think getting down there and scrapping is what I think he would be really good at anyway, and I wish he'd do more of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the nice guy thing is, it's a moniker that's positive and negative when it comes to this team, sure. I want him to shove somebody You're the biggest guy you're blocking everybody.
Speaker 1:Let him know about it. Man, pretend he plays for Michigan State and you know it put handcuffs on a guy. Okay, next up, dj Rodman, and I think the grade I'm gonna give him is really based on expectations. And so I'm gonna give him a solid C based on what he was expected to do for this team. And he is shooting 10, he's 10 of 27 from three point range, right, but he's, which is pretty good 37%. He's a good three point shooter. He's so far that part of the bargain has come through.
Speaker 1:That is about what he had been doing to Washington State. He was even better in conference play last year. So I'm excited for conference play for him because now he's kind of getting into his element. But outside of those 27 attempts, he's attempted 22 two-pointers and he's made five of them. So five of 22 on the two-pointers. He's doing good from free throw range and he's starting to. You know he does still not a high volume rebounder, but he does get in there from time to time, but I don't think he's drawn a charge all season and that's the kind of thing he was known to do and I thought personally that the combination of him and Kobe would bring a you know even more blue color element to the team that I think it's been missing when you have a lot of guard play, especially kind of, you know, slick guard play like Boogie Ellis. It's not the most physical thing. Isaiah Collier exists, but pretty much I think he's been neutered to some extent because of the foul trouble that his aggressiveness has gotten him into.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll keep this one brief. To your point about the five of 22 from two-point range, he needs to take more threes, he needs to basically the interior shots need to be basically just gimmies at this point and he needs to rebound more. So I'm going to give him a C minus. You know, the skills are there, he just needs to deploy him better, and maybe part of that is where he's miscast as a four.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he's getting. He's getting a shot blocked a lot because he's really he's probably closer to six-five than his listed six-six. I would say.
Speaker 1:He's not a very, and he's not a long guy, he's not a guy with freakishly long arms or anything like that. So, yeah, I think you know that's why, again, that's why we get into playing that four out, one in, and he's just, and you know, you lose some of that rebounding, but you're supposed to be able to shoot it well in that situation. But anyway, dj Rodman, so you gave him a C minus, I gave him a C, bronny James, I give him an incomplete at this point. Yeah, has to be.
Speaker 1:Just not enough sample size, although I will say I do like most of what I've seen so far, even though it hasn't shown up in necessarily great numbers. He's four or 12 from the field and three of 10 from three point land, but I still like I think he's going to be rounding into shooting shape a bit. I think he's made some shots. So a lot of these young guys they come in and they can't buy a shot and at least he's made some shots and he's done some things and he's gotten some boards and he's made some steals and had some good assists and he's done some nice things. He hasn't he just, you know, he hasn't had a. He hasn't been a detriment to the team. He's helped the team, I think. Agree.
Speaker 2:What's interesting too, on a steals per 40 basis, only Kobe is ahead of him at 2.5. So incomplete, but you know you can see the potential to stuff the stat sheet with him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think I'd like to see them. I don't know what the fitness is of this team, but I'd like to see them do more, more pressing and trapping with Kobe and and and Isaiah and Brani in the game at the same time. And Brani's been running some sets from point. He had a turnover against Alabama State where he was running running the point and it was a pretty bad entry pass. But I think I think it's one of those things where he'll process that kind of that kind of action and do better next time. But but it is interesting that he is taking some of the ball handling duty away from what maybe Kobe Johnson would normally do. So in essence, he's sort of moving into the. The third string point guard position is what it seems like to me. So definitely a lot of potential in the pack 12 schedule for him to to make a big impact.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay, harrison Hornery I've got to give him a D right now because he gets paid to shoot right and you know he's shown some flashes of smart basketball. Overall he's. He can play good team defense. He blocks a little bit of shots here and there. He's decent passer. He can handle the ball. He brings some versatility to the big position that we don't have in any other guy. But the problem is he. You know he obviously has some flaws in his game and his shooting ability is supposed to be the reason we have him out there and his ability to stretch the defenses, help with spacing and just create mismatches against smaller guys. He'd be able to shoot over guys.
Speaker 1:He's nine of 34 on the season, which is 26.5%, and, like we mentioned earlier, he has, outside of that UC Irvine game where he went four for nine He'd only made. Until this Alabama State game he'd only made three three-pointers the entire season, right, and that was with 22 attempts. He was three of 22 before this Alabama State game and and you just can't, you just can't play a guy like that. I mean, if that's what he brings to the table shooting, you just can't play a guy like that. Now the good, until he turns things around and hopefully this Alabama State game is a turnaround for him and he's got his confidence back. Because, man, when you're on one of those yeah, when you let's just call it slump when you're on one of those slumps, it's, I would imagine it's really hard on someone who relies on shooting for their livelihood.
Speaker 2:I don't know how familiar you are with Australian culture, probably like me. Oh okay, mine basically begins and ends with Outback Steakhouse. I'm at the thank you, that's.
Speaker 1:that's a reaction. I was doing that reaction on behalf of the country of Australia which make that reaction.
Speaker 2:You'll get this reference then I think at this point he needs about a two week mental walkabout. Yeah, is that a fair? Yeah, very fair. That's kind of where he is. I like it.
Speaker 1:So we'll put Horniery on a little two week walkabout.
Speaker 2:Yes, but I agree with the grade.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that there's still maybe situations where he's going to help the team with his shooting, but at this point we have so many shooters or guys who could potentially shoot well, we can actually afford to sit him Maybe, whereas last year we couldn't really afford him.
Speaker 1:It's at some stages it's because of depth. Okay, kijani Wright, I'm going to give him a, a B like a curve, a B on a curve, because I know his efficiency numbers are good. But I do think that his inability to sort of string together a series of quality games has been problematic. It seems like there are games where he plays significant minutes and he doesn't do much, and there's games he plays significant minutes and he does a good job. But there's also these games where he comes in and it's just you can see right away it's not working and or he gets lost in the shuffle. And the reason he gets lost in the shuffle in these games is that he's not bringing a ton to the table. I feel like there's incremental improvement in his game, but I think USC needs him to make bigger incremental improvement before he can be considered a guy that they're going to play 20 minutes a game.
Speaker 2:Chris, I like you, but you are wrong. Let me tell you this On the entire team, this is like the only segment On the entire team only Joshua Morgan is shooting a higher percentage from two than Johnny Wright. On the team, actually, nobody is shooting a higher free throw percentage. And, my gosh, how much is that? Hamstrung us. A couple of times, I mean, when we've had these, these catastrophic losses, it's been at the line, but he's only shot nine free throws.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying, you can only make what you shoot, buddy Exactly.
Speaker 2:He needs to shoot on the entire team. Only in Boogie Ellis is a more efficient producer On the entire team. Only Vince has a higher rebounds per 40. So the answer is he gets an A.
Speaker 1:OK, well, I mean, you have perfect justification for it. My, my, my sense is that I acknowledge his efficiency when he's in there, but but it's almost like he, he's a. You know, he's like a. He expires quickly in games, right, I don't know the best way to put it. Like could he? Could he play 35 minutes in a game and and and maintain that the entire time.
Speaker 1:I don't think he can and I think USC needs him to be able to. I guess is what I'm saying, and so that's why I give him a B, even though he's been showing, I mean it's it's been in limited minutes and and and again, limited minutes can be misleading and some of the stats can be misleading just based on, you know, again, like, like he played Alabama State. He played 13 minutes, eight points, four boards and was three of three, but it was Alabama State, right, and this, this I'm not saying it's not a good thing to see and he can only make shoot, make the shots he shoots. But I would just like to see him, I'd like to see him be able to play 25 minutes a game, potentially, and maybe and maybe this is kind of along the lines of the Isaiah Isaiah versus Auburn thing.
Speaker 2:But look at his number, skin. So I've heard you know he had a BPO of 75.0. He had the highest rebounds per 40 of anybody in that game. In 17 minutes 14.1. I think what I'd like to see is we've talked a few times on the pod about, you know, what do we do at the four. I want to see when we get a team that that doesn't have an awesome four and maybe just start them and see what happens to your point, to see what can we do. You know, do we do it against a team that's just brutal up front, that has just two bruises that can just kick your butt? No, but with the right matchup, I'd like to see just what happens, because that that's, that's not been a position of strength to say, nicely, you're starting four for this team.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that the danger with Kajan he's the player in the most danger of of kind of being overlooked because Arrington page, he doesn't have to page, his skill set right.
Speaker 1:Or length or athleticism and he doesn't have. It's sort of like he can't play a stretch, for he's a traditional four Right and so in a sense his skill set is is perfect because it's he's the only one who has that skill set at the four. And so in games where that skill set makes sense as far as the matchups goes, then he's going to do OK. But what you're going to see a lot of is there's going to be a lot of games where he's just not called for, that skill set isn't really called for. And so you want Aaron to page out there.
Speaker 1:Who can you know hit a three pointer and dribble the ball a little bit? Or you want Vincent, even down low right. So so it's kind of like he's he had, he's unique, he has a unique skill set at the four of anybody on the roster. But it's almost like he's just like an extra, extra knife in the Swiss Army, but he's just the one you, you know, used to clean your cuticle from every once in a while. You know it's just he's not the one you're using to cut the meat.
Speaker 2:Fair. I would also say that his, his weakness is, his strength is that he lacks aside from those other things, he lacks pages. I'll say nicely, confidence. Yeah. The other way would say he knows his role a lot more. He's just you know, he's. He's a lot more efficient. If I had part of that and that's not a slam on page, it's just he's. He's played a lot more games and he knows what he can do, but he can't do it If I had Aaron to page his confidence, I'd probably rule the world by now.
Speaker 2:You would yes.
Speaker 1:Because they're to page and I'm going to give him a, a, b minus. I think it's a rising B minus and again this is based on. This is kind of curved, based on what I thought he was, what I think he's kind of capable of in his first year. I think he's better, he's better offensively. Then he's about I should say that he's he's becoming about. Right now.
Speaker 1:His offensive game is becoming what I thought he would be this year as far as being able to shoot the three, being able to to finish at the rim. He's starting to. He's starting to round to round into playing shape a bit. His last let's see his last five games, he's he's starting to get more minutes. He's starting to score more points. He had nine against Gonzaga, he had 12 against Alabama State, led the team and I think he's three of his last five from from three-point range.
Speaker 1:So his issue is that is is the lack of intensity on defense and the in the impassivity and the either some stuff against Alabama State where you know not closing out on guys and just sort of getting caught in in between players.
Speaker 1:He has a long way to go on defense and he's starting to do some things on offense, but I'm a little worried that because he's so confident and he and he's sort of like conscious, he has no conscious when it comes to shooting and and to going around and trying to do spin moves and stuff, I'm a little worried that a little bit of success is going to breed more confidence and we'll make him try to do that a bit more than he should, of course, and that will result in him Just getting yanked really quickly and I'd much rather have him be a little less extravagant with with his, with his skill set, and just try to, you know, whenever, whenever he like takes what is sort of comes to him.
Speaker 1:He does really well and I think his three-point shots had been good shots, like he, because he's been wide open and and he can shoot it, so so we did it. So that's, I think he's encouraging and and there's a lot to be said for the idea of he needs to just keep playing until until he Can work out at least, because if he can become a good offensive player, then at least you can sort of justify his defensive lapses.
Speaker 2:Agree, you know, what you've described is just the joys he said search castically, of playing a freshman right. And to that point I think that if I'm gonna divvy up minutes, I might kind of give a lot more of the the road minutes to to gajani, because he is more experienced and he's not gonna do the To use your term extravagant mistake Freshman could do. Yeah, you know, the other thing, aside from the defense, and I guess it goes along with the defense Pages, rebounds per 40 is only seven point six. That's just for a guy is athletic and just, you know, basically, just sculpted like you would want to sculpt your for Needs to do more. And I don't know if it's a motor, I don't know if it's, if it's just a mindset or what Boxing.
Speaker 1:I don't think. I don't think he's good at getting bodies on guys yet. I mean he's. He's shown a pretty he can, he can seal Pretty nicely because he's wide and he's got. He's got long arms and stuff, but Like he's not a narrow built guy, right, he's a little broad for his and so I just I think it's just with him its consistency and Playing with intensity. You know he's only playing 12 minutes. A game Like you come in for 12 minutes like you should be playing hard every minute. I feel like I feel like your condition.
Speaker 1:You're well enough condition. All these guys coming off the bench, and that's what. And that's again this passivity that keeps coming up in my thoughts.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Vince, vince. Sometimes he's spreading down the court like a like like secretariat, you know, and sometimes he's just, like you know, kind of bouncing around and seems to be wanting to hide. And Kejani, you know, he a lot of times he'll show a lot of intensity, a lot of times he's just like I'm not gonna, you know, just I don't want you to know, I'm here and, and you know, brawny showing intensity, so that's good, but but that's just the intensity level of this team. Yep is, and this is sort of like when you, when you go to, you know you would think that you're going to guard offense, maybe USC, naturally you would think there'd be a little less physical and that makes little sense Because the locus of the team is moving to, you know, switching positions from, from the front court.
Speaker 1:But you still had Kobe Johnson, who's you know who's, who's as intense a player as we've had in a while and and I think you know I just keep going back to him, I really just starts with him. It's his, his, it's become his job to To light the light, the, what do you call it? Like the, the pilot light, like?
Speaker 2:the pilot. Yeah, there you go. Pilot.
Speaker 1:Life of the stove and all these other burners can't turn on until until this guy's lit, and so so it just comes back to him and and and it carries over to Arrington Page, who we're talking about, because All that intensity is contagious and he's shown signs against Kansas City, came out and looked really good on defense. Our showed signs of look you know, effort, and if he gets his key to his whole, this whole effort, his whole success in life is effort. So if he shows effort, he's going to To be a great player.
Speaker 2:So yeah, if I'm looking at this team and just again to go back to the show of somebody, he looks like the one guy I would be the most afraid to fight and he needs to play like that he's he just looks like my gosh. You know how do we stop this guy?
Speaker 1:What about Johnny? Though he's, I mean, you know what he is, but he's cerebral, well yeah, but you don't know what. Necessarily, looking at him, I'd be. I'd be like, true, he doesn't throw his waiter, he doesn't throw his muscle around enough yet, exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:I could take Bill Walton, because Bill Walton cerebral too, right, you know, I kind of see him as a junior Bill Walton, in that regard, very junior. Okay, so we've gone through the players. What do you think about the?
Speaker 1:overall grade of the team so far. I'm gonna give it God. I'm gonna give it a, I'm gonna give a C.
Speaker 2:You know, offensively, it's just about as good as we had hoped for overall, even though there's pockets of disappointment. The big thing is, I don't really have, you know, you can't really get metrics on this. The defense, I don't think I'm gonna be able to get that. The big thing is, I don't really have, you know, you can't really get metrics on this, the defense. I don't know why it's not there. Come into the season, we were thinking we should be an elite defense and you know, I don't know why that's not happening. The intensity, the intensity is passivity it's.
Speaker 1:It's that whatever that attitude was that has carried over. Really, since you know the a Kong will year, that that format of that we've been able to get the players to kind of buy into on defense, yeah, that's been there every year and Now in some years it's rounded into shape earlier than others. Okay, and that's true. But I don't know, I just don't get it. Most of the players from last year Are back.
Speaker 2:That's the thing Are you is the big takeaway here. Hey, drew Peterson was the big leader on on basically getting guys fired up and engaged on defense, or was it just? No, I don't know. I think it was.
Speaker 1:I think it was Kobe Johnson and this is why I think, going back to Kobe, kobe needs to. This is this is Kobe's team. I know it's boogies a captain to, but Kobe's a captain. He was captain last year. This is Kobe's team and yeah, and you know, kobe, if you're listening, you're a great player and but just go out there and and get this team fired up, play some defense and inspire them by your play and, and I think that if USC plays good defense, the offense will follow.
Speaker 2:As, as often happens the you know in the business, they say the league gets buried. I think that's what the podcast or this episode should be called. This is Kobe's team. Yeah, and that's for better or worse. This is Kobe's team. Yeah, no, I agree. Yeah, this is his team and he needs to play like it.
Speaker 1:And then look, USC has a game next Thursday against Oregon. Oregon's been very injured. There's an opportunity there for USC to To steal a win and a place that's very hard to win. And I don't know what. Boogie Ellis is gonna be available. He had a hip contusion against Alabama State so I mean I would think and he was walking gingerly and so I'm thinking that it looks like something he'd be able to play through. He's probably just really bruised, but this is a winnable game. That road trip is winnable.
Speaker 2:There's a good time for a break to great opportunity to go to start, for no, you got the organs up there.
Speaker 1:Under under man Oregon team I'm not very good Oregon State team, although it's always tough to play in Corvallis. And then you got Stanford and and Cal at home, and those are games that you think that you'd be favorite in some way. And those are games that you think that you'd be favorite. And so chance to start out for no in the pack 12. And I think, based on the record right now, I think USC has to probably equal the record they had last year in conference, which was 14 and 6, and then probably win a game or two in the pack 12 tournament and that's that should be enough to get in. And what do you think about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, I think you're right on 14 wins, I think, is my watermark below that. It's going to be extremely nervous time. We're going to be fortunate, like, for example, seed and home beating Yukon was nice yesterday. Yes, that's a help, just a lot of that kind of magic. Oklahoma's been good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and again, I think you know in a sense to to quote Lincoln Riley in a sense there USC is not far off. It's not like, obviously, the the games against Gonzaga and Auburn were just pathetic, I think, efforts. And so in that sense you can say, oh, they may not be far off, but they're not at the level of these teams, and that's probably true. But the UCI game was always going to be sort of have an asterisk next to it. Yeah, long Beach State.
Speaker 1:Was certainly a winnable game and Oklahoma certainly winnable game. So you know, in a, in a, in a different universe that's not very far off, usc's nine and two with losses to, to Gonzaga and and and right which, which, if that had happened, if USC was nine and two. With those two losses, no one would be worried about USC making the tournament. They'd be disappointed in those two losses, but it would be because. But losing at this point, lose when you lose To a team that's highly ranked, you don't?
Speaker 2:you don't miss out on a whole lot as far as as far as rankings, as long as you win all the other games, you're supposed to win or whatever.
Speaker 1:So yes, so yeah, so it's not. There is a USC is not far off from being nine and two, and I don't think they're far off from being from being a whole lot worse than they are. So so that is an encouraging thing and there's obviously a lot of room for growth and and it remains to be seen sometimes you play a conference schedule and people are, you know, personnel very familiar with each other, so Sometimes it ends up being easier in conference play and sometimes it ends up being harder in conference play. So Curious to see what will happen. I think our next podcast we will have a pack 12 preview, we will, and just to tease a little bit about the game, we will, and just to tease a little bit, we're also going to have, I think, the first segment of Mark's mean minute.
Speaker 2:I'm looking forward to Venting my spleen a little bit in that, in that pod now.
Speaker 1:I was promised that. I thought I was promised that this pod, but I'm willing to. I'm willing to wait another week for that. I thought we were getting, I thought it was gonna happen, but I guess I guess we'll have to wait, just like waiting for Bronnie.
Speaker 2:It'll be Exactly be, a late Christmas gift, exactly well, that'll do it for the Dunk City podcast.
Speaker 1:This episode. It's a long one, but we wanted to cover everything that was going on with the out of conference. We just kind of went player by player and Now we go into conference play. We do we like to do our conference previews before conference play, because I tell you what you do a conference preview back in October, october, and Then you do it are you do a conference preview now, before the conference actually starts. I think you'll see the results very different Based on what's on what I'm sorry, the predictions would be very different based on what's happened In this out of conference schedule. So a lot of a lot of intel on teams going into the conference and Certainly, maybe the pack 12 is not as strong as people thought it was going to be, so which which could be detrimental and trying to get to the tournament Down the road. So anyway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just a question. I don't. Conference preview in October. Was that about football? I don't understand that. Maybe I'm missing something here.
Speaker 1:Well, like when you, when you look at Most, when they preview the season. Like for example, pack 12 media day right, they had they, they, the media, assembled media. Predict the order of order.
Speaker 2:Finish the conference and okay, so this is okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so USC was picked second. Yeah and UCLA was picked third.
Speaker 2:And don't think that stands today. Yeah, it doesn't stand right now.
Speaker 1:Now it could end up being that way, we don't know, but I think if, if people waited until before the conference play Stars, I think you have a much better informed Way to to predict the conference clearly, so Anyway, so I think that'll do it for this episode of the Dunk City podcast. It's a long one. We went over a lot of stuff, but it is. It is Christmas coming, so we thought you know, it's a good time of year to be generous it is For better or worse.
Speaker 2:This is Kobe's team. If I could take us out, fight on everyone. Fight on.