Chris and Mark discuss the state of USC basketball after the Trojans got swept at the Oregon schools to fall to 6-7. There's a defense of Andy Enfield and discussion of possible lineup changes, too. Should Bronny start?
The Dunk City Podcast is the podcast of record for the USC basketball community. You can find all episodes at DunkCityPod.com, USCBasketball.com or on Apple Music, Spotify and Amazon. Contact us at USCBasketball.com@gmail.com.
Chris and Mark discuss the state of USC basketball after the Trojans got swept at the Oregon schools to fall to 6-7. There's a defense of Andy Enfield and discussion of possible lineup changes, too. Should Bronny start?
The Dunk City Podcast is the podcast of record for the USC basketball community. You can find all episodes at DunkCityPod.com, USCBasketball.com or on Apple Music, Spotify and Amazon. Contact us at USCBasketball.com@gmail.com.
Welcome to the Dunk City podcast. Happy New Year everybody. This is the Dunk City podcast brought to you by USCBasketballcom. We hope everyone is enjoying their new year and had a great holidays. Here with Mark Backstrom, I'm Chris Houston. We are talking Trojans basketball the podcast of record for USC. There's not very many podcasts left talking USC basketball, but we're still here and we're still going. So you know, tough sledding right now for the Trojans off to a six and seven start after a road sweep up in the Oregon's very tough situation for USC basketball. But not all is lost. There's obviously plenty of time for this team to turn things around on the season to at least start playing good basketball. Whether that is going to be good enough to result in any postseason play, you know that's entirely speculation, but I think at this point we just like to see some better basketball being played. What say you, mark?
Speaker 2:Well, it's a new year. I don't know about the happy part right Based on that last road trip yeah that was brutal. Yeah, really frustrating Boy. How many times over the last two games did you say you know what? I think my starting five should be dot dot dot. Did you go through that exercise about five times, as I did?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think right now I'm on starting starting brawny and sellers at this point.
Speaker 2:There you go. Okay, yep, let's flesh it out and and boogie.
Speaker 1:You know, I would probably. I think you have to ride with boogie.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because he's, you know he's, he's a proven guy and he's more likely than not he's going to play pretty well, even if he's not playing to his capability right now. And certainly I think he's disappeared in a sense. Like his, his, he's scoring, but his assertiveness and his ability to take over games the way he did last year hasn't really shown up yet and which is which is weird, yeah, um, he had.
Speaker 2:he had an extremely quiet BPO of 72.4 last game. You could have fooled me, I guess I'd. When I saw that, I, you know, I kind of wondered mentally from time to time during that game, but he didn't strike me as like oh my gosh, here's a. Here's a look up from below.
Speaker 1:um, uh, performance, he actually did a little better than Bronny did from an efficiency standpoint, right, and of course, a lot of that stuff was uh toward the end, or some of that stuff was toward the end, um, you know, making it look more respectable than it was. Uh, it seems that uh opposing teams uh come out and just shoot like gang busters against USC and I'm not sure that all of it is defensive related, because uh, oregon state came out and it was just really on fire uh from three point land and, like we've talked about many times, you can close out, you can play good perimeter defense and if teams uh go out and shoot uh, uh just well from outside, uh, like Oregon state was eight of 17,. So uh, that's a very good percentage. They shoot in 47% and they shot 59.6 overall uh for the game and I mean there's some of those plays.
Speaker 1:Tyler Billidow, uh, the Oregon state big, he just made some shots that you just really couldn't defend. Uh, you know, fall away. Uh, fall away open. Uh, you know uh fall away. Turnaround jump shots, you know uh just little things that are there's really only so much you could do, and he was just making everything Uh. So uh, usc sort of uh came into a game with Oregon state, uh playing hot and playing for uh, trying to get a split at home and, unfortunately for USC, they came out on the run end of it even though USC shot 51% for the game and 38.5 from three. So that's what's so hard to to figure out how things add up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't get it. The uh Christian O'Connell or Christian Wright and Dexter O'Connell I just kind of made him into one fictional character there. Um, coming to the, into the game, they were shooting 22.6% from three and what did they do against us? Five of five, yeah, um, you know, I I don't think that, uh, a draft Kings or a fan duel has a line on that, but I'm I'm pretty sure you would have gotten some, some rich odds. We said, yeah, these guys will make fight without missing one combined from outside.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely and obviously. Uh, a portion you know, a portion of this is it's not like I don't think it's a one on one defensive situation. I think it's like an overall team defensive um situation where we're letting teams get comfortable in their offense or getting comfortable in transition. And I think it goes back to um a couple episodes ago when we talked about the overall deterioration of Kobe Johnson's play. And he's the guy that gets the team going defensively and he is just not the same guy on defense and has, of course, just been absolutely atrocious on offense. Going back again, we talked about this, but going back now, seven games he has. He has five, three pointers and out of 30, he shot five of 30 from three point land in this last seven games and overall his you're looking at three of 10, three of seven, two of 13. He got a four of eight against Alabama State. Overall, three of 11 against Oregon, two of seven against Oregon State. Just a brutal Oregon trip for him. He did get nine assists against Oregon, but but he had five turnovers against Oregon State. He he looked really bad against Oregon State and you scored eight points, a lot of it coming at the end. So I just don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean people are saying it's right, you know it's natural to blame the coach. But Boogie, ellis, kobe Johnson, joshua Morgan, vincent Iwachukwu, ozaya Sellers, harrison Hordery, kejani Wright those are all guys who were on the team last year. It's basically the same team. And then swapping out Drew Peterson for Isaiah Collier and swapping out Trey White for DJ Rob A lot of people complained about Trey White's defense last year and the fact he couldn't hit three point shots. Well, robbins probably awash defensively compared to Trey White and but he's shooting better from three point. He's shooting 37.5 percent. So all these things and people can talk about the bigs, but it's really, I think, down to the fact that our backcourt, which is supposed to be one of the best in the country and could be just as important, just isn't performing near what it needs to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree. What's really frustrating too is, you know, I take notes during the game and I had a note at the beginning of the Oregon game saying, yeah, in the first couple of minutes Kobe had a block and a steal and I thought we're going to get the engaged Kobe on defense and I don't think that lasted past the first media time out. It just, you know, this is something that we've we've talked about going back to like about the fourth or fifth game of the season, about there's just you know there's there's yet to be just a 40 minute game, aside from maybe seating seating hall. We actually Kansas State was really Kansas State.
Speaker 1:We look really good against that and that's another frustrating thing is this team, as constructed, has shown the ability to play good basketball, exactly High level basketball. Like the Kansas State game. Kansas State was a good opponent. Seaton Hall was also a good opponent, but Kansas State, I think, coming out in the first game, the neutral court, the way we handled them, the way we played defense and offense, all phases. There were some issues with rebounding, of course, but overall, a 13 point victory over a team that made the Elite Eight last year and has a lot of talent on the team, that was a good win. I mean, that's what this team is capable of, and so the question is how does this team get back to it and why did it fall off in the first place?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't get it If I can bring in just a concept from a different one of my passions horse racing. There are a lot of horses that they get out to a two link lead and if they're never pressed they're impossible to catch. But you look them in the eye and they will just not just finish second, they'll fade back to fourth, fifth or sixth and I think that might be what this team is like. I think you know, I don't think we've ever tasted our own blood after getting punched in the mouth and said OK watch this, it's just the team just kind of wilts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting and it could be, it could be. This is the same kind of thing happened with the team last year and I suspect that part of this is the result of Of the team going from a big oriented team to a guard oriented team Right, because just the nature of guard plays it tends to be less about being physical, right. And then the boogie boogie is not the most physical guy. Isaiah Collier is very physical, but again we've talked about that it seems like he is sort of neutered himself in that regard because of the foul troubles he's been getting into. And Kobe Johnson I don't know if it was because he got spooked by some foul trouble as well, but he's been less physical Right. So I think overall you're looking at a team that is much less physical than than some previous and field teams.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and also, I think, you know, it just seemed that, even when we didn't, there was a belief that we would find a way to win. Yeah, and I just, you know, I hate to impart feelings and I think onto you know something that should be data driven, but it just, it doesn't seem like this team finds it feels it'll find a way to win.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know we talked a lot about the big three boogie, isaiah Collier and Kobe Johnson earlier in the year. Like the first half of this year they were averaging like 50 points a game between the three of them. Last five games they've scored 37, 41, 24, 31 and 35.
Speaker 1:And I think we talked about 40 kind of being the, the, the basement for them. We, I think we acknowledge that there might be a flute game here or there where where they scored less than 40. But when you're, when your trio of guards is the engine of your offense and you're relying on them to to give you a base of 40 to 50 points Again, last five games they've only hit 40 points once and so you're looking at just a utter collapse of the whole rationale of this year's team, Because people are talking about the bigs. The bigs are almost if the, if the guards were playing to their capability, the bigs would almost be irrelevant. Right, the big play like you can. It's kind of like you can play with great bigs and have just decent guard play and you can play with great guards and have decent big play. Right.
Speaker 1:But the idea was that Boogie Ellis is an all-American level player. Isaiah Collier, number one recruit. Kobe Johnson, rising talent with great defense. These are all guys that were to some extent proven commodities, Isaiah, not at the college level, but we knew what we had coming in and we saw what they were capable of early in the season when they were averaging again 53 points, 52 points per game for the first part of the season and I can't really I'm kind of at a loss to explain why these three would suddenly take major dips in scoring. It just doesn't really make sense. At the same time, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Well, a couple of things. First, you can't say, well, the pieces don't fit together because we saw them. We've seen them fit together earlier in the year. I don't know if it's just the personalities or the chemistries don't have together. Well, it has to be. I think it has to be.
Speaker 1:Again. Going back to people talking about the coach, I don't think Andy Enfield and the staff has suddenly stopped learning how to coach defense right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Something is happening with the effort. I mean, how do you explain Kobe Johnson with the effort he's been showing? He's shooting 38% from the field, 27% from three. This is a guy who was among the national leaders in steals, you know, until the last few games. He's had exactly three steals in the last four games. Oh, my gosh Right. So for him, this is a guy averaging. He was averaging three steals a game up until the Long Beach State game and since then, since then, he's averaging less than one.
Speaker 1:Right, he's almost like he's I don't know. I want to say he's given up on the season, but he's in this funk that if he doesn't get out of it, it seems to be affecting the entire team and and and. So it's just one of those things where I can't really it's not. There's nothing that I don't think can be done strategically, and strategically from a coaching standpoint, I don't think it's a matter of, oh, they need to play, you know, more zone, or they need to do this defensively. They need to, you know, switch over screens or under screens, or they need to, you know, play a different style of offense, which, which you know it's like if you, if you, can't hit the shots, it doesn't really matter what offense you run. So and some of these shots are are good shots, like the guys are just not making open shots.
Speaker 1:And so I don't think it's. It's a situation where where Enfield can be like oh, beyond changing the starting lineups, beyond changing the rotations, which which we'll talk about but it seems to be entirely a mental issue, like you talked about getting punched in the face and just not recovering.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you kind of hit on it and I I will always bring this because it reinforces a point I made and makes me look a little smart. You know, when I you know, in the last column I did about this is Kobe's team, the numbers behind it you know what you say on the number of steals is exactly exactly why we're struggling defensively. Which kind of I want to put that. Bring that back to an earlier point you made when we brought up that. You brought up that 45 points. I want to attribute that to you. That was presupposing we were going to have a really good defense and we were going to be really tough to beat. Our defense has gone so much south that even that 45 is going to be almost like a starting, like kind of table stakes to maybe compete rather than, yeah, these guys get these three guys get 45 and good luck trying to try to beat us. Then the whole, the whole scale is shifted.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because so much flows from from these assumptions, right?
Speaker 1:So if you, if you go into a game assuming that the the aggregate of USC's backcourt Boogie Ellis, isaiah Collier, kobe Johnson and now Barony James, to some extent Osai sellers, and let's call DJ Rodman a backcourt player because he gets the majority of his of his points that way and looking at this array of guys who are pretty good shooters and scores, you're entering into the season thinking, wow, I've got a really good, good group here and and most likely they're going to because some of them are proven players, we can depend on them to do X right and because you can assume that they will do X other things will flow from that, especially if you're assuming that they will continue to play the same, with the same level of defensive intensity that they've had in the past.
Speaker 1:So really good backcourt, let's say solid defense, the, the. The issues with the bigs become easier to manage because teams are really focused on trying to stop your backcourt. That opens up things for the bigs, gives less pressure on the bigs, let some maybe develop at their, at their pace for the young bigs. So a lot of things would potentially flow from the stipulation that your trio of guards are going to set the tone, set the pace, be productive on both ends of the floor, and that hasn't happened.
Speaker 2:Not at all. Not at all. It's the, the, the disappointment has not been in a vacuum or a pocket. I guess it's been more, more widespread, although not all encompassing, I would say. You know, there's been some, some, some bright spots.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wonder if we'll talk about those here shortly. But I wonder if you know, psychologically it's really hard to get in people's heads. But once USC lost to, it seems like the Oklahoma loss seems to be a bit of an inflection point for this team, because the team was playing pretty well, I think, in that part of the schedule and notwithstanding the the UC Irvine game, which we know the situation behind that but Kansas State looked very good, cal State, bakersfield looked as expected. Uc Irvine was a bit of a fluke because of those guys, and then Brown was still missing a guy or two I think, and it was, and it was a bit sluggish. But but whatever they grinded that one out, usc was up, I think as much as 20 in that game or 18. And then Oklahoma was a tough, a tough matchup and definitely Oklahoma is now I think they're the 12th ranked team, they've moved into a really good position and so that that that wasn't a kind of loss that should shatter your psyche, but it seems to have.
Speaker 1:Or maybe it was the Gonzaga game, because it seems like as soon as USC lost to Oklahoma and Gonzaga, it was like Kobe Johnson said, f it. I don't If we can't be a top 10 team, I don't care or something, right, if we can't be the team that we were predicted to be, then we shouldn't be very good at all Mentally, right. It's like that kind of they were so set on having that elite season that they forgot that if it doesn't go your way perfectly, you still have to compete and try to salvage what you can. And it seems like it seems like there's just been a lot of just lack of effort and lack of focus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oklahoma game and the guns yeah this is really going to date me and this might be something only you and I remember, since we're probably one among the older of this, the people involved here. Do you remember that famous Ricky Waters quote when he played for the Eagles, saying for who for what?
Speaker 1:I don't remember that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they. Basically he had, he had kind of mailed it in during the end of the season the Eagles this is after he was at Notre Dame. He was with the Eagles and they said, you know, he was getting called up by the media and basically they're saying you know where's the effort? And his response was for who, for what? And it kind of seems that we have a little bit of that. You know, I don't sense any greater purpose for this team.
Speaker 1:That's a that's a great, great analogy.
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't want to speculate, but it seems to me that the issue is probably locker room related and I don't know if this is the nature of what we're going to have now in the era of NIL, maybe you know.
Speaker 1:The only thing I can speculate, that is that Isaiah Collier had some struggles with his turnovers. I don't know what that was, the kind of thing that was sort of demoralizing for the other guards to have to to work with. I feel like it's kind of weak sauce is an excuse if that, if that is the case, because because he has sort of his turnovers have not been as bad of late, although they were pretty bad against Oregon State. It seems that I don't know, maybe they don't like that he's that he's not being as aggressive as he was earlier in the year. I think now, with with Bronnie's emergence, or at least Bronnie sort of playing into shape, this should give Isaiah Collier more of a green light to get back to his, his old mentality and not worry too much about, about, you know, drawing fowls or getting charges or that kind of thing. And I think Bronnie James played pretty well the last game and I think that's one of the few bright spots to emerge in on that road trip. What do you think?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I, I. I'll put it this way after, after how this season is gone, I'm I'm not going to try to make it an attempt to say, well, this dynamic should change this way or that way because, yeah, like the predictions slide in and it works well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the predictions are are tough to make. You know, my expectation was that the team would know that it was conference play, would play a lot harder, but conference play didn't seem to matter. Against Oregon, oregon State, they didn't play hard. And what's funny is that Oregon it wasn't like Oregon was playing particularly well at the beginning of the game, like they weren't they weren't shooting Well or are blowing, blowing the doors off. It was just that USC was playing so poorly and and eventually, like Oregon, just eventually, it was like well, I guess we're just gonna, you know, I guess we'll just start have to make in some, have to start making some shots, and and that's what they did. And USC was like, okay, go ahead, you know so. But when it's 12 to 2, I think USC scored two points in the first five minutes and just couldn't hit anything. That's just. You're not gonna win a lot of games when you come out of the gate and your shooters aren't shooting and eventually, if you don't shoot, eventually other teams gonna gonna gain confidence and make some shots.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's that's, yeah, that's an unfortunate the Statement on that game. I will say you know, the way they came out at the beginning of the second half was impressive and promising for both games right. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Our Lisa maybe the first game. The Oregon game was was a working game. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, and I don't know what happened at halftime. They really looked like a different team in the second half. I don't know if something happened involving Vince's hair, because it was different from the second half Versus the first half.
Speaker 1:If this got the hair ties.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe they need to make that like a pregame ceremony to get this team engaged from the start. Yeah involving you know, some ceremony involving Vince's hair and getting everybody engaged, but it just yeah, just the indifferent starts are getting to be a real tiresome yeah.
Speaker 1:And and one other. One other point is that that has been an issue is the number of fouls that the Trojans have have incurred in recent weeks, which has resulted in Just a major amount of free throws for the opposing team, usc, at 24 fouls against Long Beach State. Most of them were bogus. That was one of the worst officiated games ever. But they also had 22 at Auburn, 23 at Oregon, 26 at Oregon State. Now, obviously, some of those were toward the end when they're trying to Do the comeback, but one of the hallmarks of Enfields teams was playing good defense without fouling. And actually, if you look at Look at the first, again going back to the first half of the season, maybe going up to Oklahoma, there USC had 14 fouls against Oklahoma and 13 in its Seton Hall. Right, it wasn't really an issue.
Speaker 1:And and then suddenly it was like just a lot of fouling and some bad, some bad fouls. Like there is a foul, kichani Wright had a foul against Oregon State where he just bodied a guy for no reason, like who was who was going up against, I think, against Paige, and he just bodied him, or against Morgan, and he just bodied him with his hip. He hip-checked him on the way up and it like with his hands up right, like it was not. It was never going to accomplish anything, this action, but he did it and so so it's. It's just a some not smart defense. So I think just having to Reconfigure the lineups until you find the right group of guys that want to play, I mean. But and I think we've talked about this offline which is Perhaps you have to start Ronnie James and Oziah Sellers now. Perhaps they've earned that right to start over Kobe Johnson and DJ Rodman.
Speaker 2:Yeah, before we get that, just just a couple points to wrap up what you were saying about the defense before and the fouls. For the road trip, we had 49 fouls versus 27 for the opponent. That's just ridiculous. It is ridiculous which feeds into the next factoid. You've always got that little thing that they say about you want to, you want to make more free throws than your opponent takes. Yeah, we were on the wrong end of that over the road trip by a 48 to 23 count, which is unbelievable. Yeah, and then we did see the return of Valium, 3-point shooter, which had gone on the wrong end 3-point shooter which had gone away for a few games.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, just wrap that up and that's a great point and and which was funny, because in the three previous games USC had taken a lot of free throws, hadn't necessarily made a ton of them, but had taken a lot. Well, but they were 21 of 26 against Auburn. They were 21 of 28 against Alabama State, 15 free throws against Oregon, 8 against Oregon State. When you have a player like Isaac Collier who is to draw fouls, it's just I don't know, it's just really weird and you know you're not gonna get good calls on the road in the pack 12, that's for sure. And so it's just meant the mental, the mental toughness of the team has taken a hit and so I think they're gonna have to reconfigure thing but reconfigure things. But I want to just make one point about Andy. Infield there's a lot of people calling. There's a lot of people who, who don't generally follow USC basketball, who are calling for his firing. Like one of the one of the Phenomenons with when you have a USC basketball board is that people who, who like never post at all, are Rarely post, like suddenly show up in droves when the team loses to like talk about how this is all on infield. And there there's a guy, people who were talking that and feel should be fired now again. And field is 211 and 136 overall. If you take out those first two years when the Trojans finished last in the conference, the nine years since, he's 188, 95, which is an average of 21, 21 and 10 in those nine years. Right now, in the last four years, he is 95 and 36 before coming into this year, which is an average of 24 and 9. So, as you can see, there is a period where we went from last in the conference to, you know, getting to 20 wins and in the last four years Finishing in the top three in the conference and getting up to a higher number of wins.
Speaker 1:Five NCAA tournaments there should have been two more. One was Taken out by COVID and the other was probably a really bad decision by the NCAA committee. But you're looking at unprecedented levels of success at USC and you see comments like oh, he only gets to the first week of the tournament, he only gets to the first. He always goes out on the first round. Well, you know he obviously went to the lead eight here and then he went to the second round another year.
Speaker 1:But the way, the way this sort of this sort of statement is thrown out. It's thrown out there as if. As if there are teams out there who routinely go to final fours or lead eights, right, and there's only like a couple teams of late that have that have been able to do that. I think Gonzaga has been to several elite eights in a row and I think Houston has gone to a few final fours, but you generally don't see even the, even the elite teams right going and avoiding first round or first weekend defeats in the tournament.
Speaker 1:It happens all the time, and the way you get get around, that is, you continuously go to the tournament and eventually you get a favorable matchup or you get the right combination of things going your way and you go on a little run. And that's exactly how it happens for every coach, every program that aren't blue bloods, right and so. And then you get these, these people saying, oh well, enfield, I don't think Enfield is the one who's going to win a national championship. But again you go look at who's won national championships, right, I mean, did? Did anybody think that Danny Hurley was a national championship coach?
Speaker 2:Yeah, before last year.
Speaker 1:Did anybody think Scott Drew was a national championship coach?
Speaker 2:No, scott Drew was basically. Look at Scott Drew's resume basically prior to that and it's, it's your point, it's it's very much the same thing, a lot, you know, a lot of success. But you know, kind of up and down in the postseason, yeah, and he was kind of thought to be just a good recruiter and not a great X and O's guy. Yeah, you look at the guys exactly.
Speaker 1:And I look at Virginia Tony Bennett right, tony Bennett was the classic case of no one thought he could get Virginia to that point. Right, he was always good in the regular season, couldn't win, you know, couldn't do well in the tournament. They lost to a 16 seed the year before they won the tournament. But if you go look at the coaches that have won national titles two of the last three are Scott Drew and Danny Hurley, right, but you've got Bill Selfs and Roy Williams and Jay Wrights, rick Petino's, john Calipari, that's, you know, in the last 10, 12 years. These are all time coaches, right? And no one is claiming that Andy Enfield is an all time coach and this expectation that he should, he should be, the expectation should be that he's at the same level as Andy should be, that he's at the same level as an all time coach. John Calipari hasn't, hasn't made it to a final four, I don't think since, since he won the title. Yeah, so, and there's a lot of people upset about that at Kentucky, but this idea yeah very upset.
Speaker 1:But but this idea that because Andy Enfield may or may not, or may, you know, may not be the guy who takes USC to win a national title, I mean UCLA hasn't won a national title since 1995. Like their gap now it's it's coming on 30 years, right, and that's a greater gap than the gap they had when they won it in 95. It would have been 20 years since they had won it, right, and everyone thought that was catastrophic. Now it's been 30 years and I'm not like trying to make excuses for for how a team plays, how the team is playing right now. But the idea that that Andy Enfield, who again is 95 and 36 over the last four years, 20, an average of 24 and nine, the idea that he hasn't earned the right to try to fix the situation because people say, oh well, look at all this talent and he's not winning. Well, he recruited that talent and he's got three good players coming in next year already signed, sealed and delivered. And you know I can't explain why they're not playing up to their ability. I don't know if any of the Enfield could explain it. I don't think it's an X is a nose thing. People are trying to make it. An X is a nose thing. I don't think that it's one of those, one of those situations where you can just make a technical fix.
Speaker 1:I think this is mental, and if you're, and if your criticism of Enfield is that he's not able to get these guys to play together, then I think that's a valid criticism. There are valid criticism that and and it is all on him in the end, without a doubt, but he still. But the idea that he should be fired is absurd, because there's a lot of people who've been, who've been wanting him fired for a long time, because, in the end, a lot of USC fans, I think, are just more comfortable having a program that that is just. They would rather be in the dumps than having a program that is breaks their heart at times. Right, getting their hopes up.
Speaker 1:That's what that's the real anger that USC basketball fans is that how dare you get my hopes up? Right, and and and they just think that it's a, it's an easy jump from oh you, you go to the tournament, oh, you should go to the Final Four. You know, and why didn't you go to the Final Four this year? You know you've been to the. You know you've been to the tournament five times? Why aren't you in the Final Four, right? Why? Why didn't we go past the Elite Eight more than once, right? You just get this, this whole like sense of entitlement once the team, once whatever USC basketball gets good, the fans get super entitled and then they reject the team when they don't live up to those expectations.
Speaker 2:And here we are, and here we are, yep, yep. Two points on that. I think, when people who, when you have fans from more traditional basketball programs like a Kansas or Kentucky, I think if you you said to them, hey, look at USC, I think Enfield needs to get fired, they would just look at you like, are you just more on?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, totally Are you joking, yeah, I mean, it's just. It's just a sign of kind of just these, these bandwagon ear fans. And to the second point, carrying off of that, you know, when these people say, well, there need to be higher standards, well, you know, I'm pretty comfortable in saying these people were not really invested in the Kevin O'Neill era and didn't suffer like I did, because it's not like this was a turnkey program and if you're going to hold the highest, you know some of the high standards. Well, guess what? Who brought the program to a point where you can actually say the standards need to be higher? This is the only guy that's done that.
Speaker 2:I mean Tim Floyd kind of had that yeah, you know not to make this the Tim Floyd podcast, but that his model is not sustainable.
Speaker 1:We're basically nor, nor, nor desirable. Because because he never, he never, he never had the, the local recruiting, the recruiting ability that that Enfield had. He did a bunch of gimmicks, right, yep, yep, to do that, to do that, yep, like, theoretically, there is, you know, devil's advocate on the other side. If, if somebody replaced, if they decided to replace Andy Enfield after this year, or if he left, then the program would be, would be a good shape because of what he did, right, yep, and and and. So I just think and I'm not saying that if, look, if USC has another poor year next year, then I can, and it's like one of those situations where, hey, this should have been a lot better. That I can think. I think you can start to entertain questions.
Speaker 1:But again, next year is is a lot of, there's a lot of turnover on the roster next year, there's a lot of new players and it's a new league. So I think even next year you have to be a bit patient with with how they're going to be. It's like go look at Dana Altman up at Oregon. He has not been doing that well of late but he certainly has earned the right to to try to try to solve that Right Because he's, because he has a proven track record and I think and feel Andy Enfield has earned the right to turn things around, because when you win more games in a four year stretch, five year stretch, seven year stretch, nine year stretch, any coach in USC history and you make USC relevant, right, you know people are talking about USC.
Speaker 1:Recruits are going to USC. People like going USC, that's a huge accomplishment, right, and and then and then. But then to be like, oh, they started out six and seven, he needs to go because he's just not the guy to get us beyond Right Now. You that it may be Andy Enfield's fault, right, that that we're not leaving up to expectations, that's, that's valid. I don't think that's something that you can quantify. I don't think there's anything he's doing or not doing that is quantifiably causing this and we don't know. And that's kind of the issue.
Speaker 1:And you're getting people who are ostensibly USC fans putting out bogus stats. There's a stat out there saying here's a quote from a from a tweet on March 9, 2023, mike Bone gave Andy Enfield a new contract for the 2028 season. In the 67 games leading up to that new contract, any Enfield was 53 and 14, with a run to the lead eight In the 50 games since receiving his new contract, and Andy Enfield is 29 and 21. Now this tweet, which is obviously an error, claims that Mike Bone gave Andy Enfield a new contract this past March and that since then, usc has played 50 games. Obviously this is an error, but I think it's kind of kind of telling that that if you're criticizing Andy Enfield for for being incompetent or not doing well, maybe have a competent tweet about it.
Speaker 1:Like maybe, maybe, don't, don't put out a typo, making a, making a, but turns it into a false claim. Right, you know, like, maybe this is the problem. But you know, maybe if we had better fans, who, who, like, really paid attention to their critiques rather than just spewing them forth, you know, maybe we'd have a stronger fan base, you know, and that would help the team win. But, yeah, it's, it's, it's crazy. I get the concerns. I'm just, I'm just as disappointed as anybody about this year. Right, we're, we're, I mean we're, we're just. It's not fun to have to deal with people complaining and people calling for the coaches firing and and I haven't, I haven't, you know, I'm. There's a, there's a conversation going on on our message board about it, and and that's valid. But I just disagree with a lot of the takes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, well, I guess one, one, one, one plan is just to say well, I can just make up numbers just to make my point and just see if anybody fact checks me, because it's Twitter, that's, that's. That's a novel approach, not mine, but I just to kind of go from experience elsewhere in imparted here I was surprised that Mike Hopkins wasn't fired a couple years ago, and so guess who was? 80 was there.
Speaker 1:Jane Cohen.
Speaker 2:Who are it? Yeah, so guess what kids get used to it. So Andy Enfield's not going anywhere for this season. You can debate it all you want, and it's. It's probably a fun exercise and maybe a little cathartic and therapeutic, but that change is not happening anytime soon.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and you know. The other thing is, if you look at Washington and they've been able to, I mean I don't know how good they're going to be this year, but I think they're better this year and they just got a five star point card coming in next year. You know, it's, it's. I don't think it's just as cut and dry as Mike Hopkins is suddenly a bad coach. I think there are times when you get, when you don't do a good job of getting the right players to compete against all the teams that they're going to be facing and and you don't get them ready.
Speaker 1:And that's all on the coach. And obviously Mike Hopkins has had some really bad years and I'm surprised he wasn't fired. But the upside to keeping him on there is that is that he has a chance to turn things around. I mean, he's won the, he's won the conference before you know, so he has a chance to turn things around and and certainly looks like they're getting better. Whether that's good enough, you know, to justify him remaining the coach, I don't know, but there is an advantage to having stability in a program. You can't just fire your way to success, and that's what I think too many USC fans are used to. It's like oh, we had a bad year, fire the coach.
Speaker 1:Yeah you know, and with basketball, the amount of turnover in in at the coaching level for USC basketball over the years has not been beneficial to the program, right, you know, except for the case of Kevin O'Neill getting fired after the disaster that he created. That came on the heels of the disaster that Tim Floyd created. That came on the heels of the disaster that that that Henry Bibi created.
Speaker 2:And so on and so forth.
Speaker 1:You know it's, you know it's turtles all the way down as they say, yeah. But so infield was was a break from that right, and while I want USC to be an elite team, I'm totally happy with, with, with winning 20 games every year and, and seeing if Andy infield, who again has brought us this point, can figure it out, I think he deserves it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the the high turnover model, that that doesn't work, even at your best programs. And if you're not an elite program it just it becomes a disaster. And just to go across sports, look at Auburn football and just just the disaster that they are. And it's, it's. You know, I don't know, if you enjoy losing at home to New Mexico State by three touchdowns and then just get absolutely embarrassed in your bowl game to a lesser team than great, then that's what you're in for. I also want to point out that somebody you know, somebody who's on a board with a with the name of Fire Enfield 1988 or whatever you know, is holding somebody to high standards. I wonder if they would just apply those same standards to their own performance in their own job in life. I would just love to see how they they perform against those same level of standards. I'll just, I'll just put it that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's, it's goes with it, goes with the, it goes with the territory. When you're a coach making millions of dollars, you're gonna get criticized.
Speaker 1:Criticism is totally valid and I understand too that people just are frustrated and want to vent and and and that's why we had the message for people to vent. But I do think people need to have some perspective on this and and also it was bad, as this year is so far. The season isn't over and there were there have been some past seasons that have looked like they could have taken a turn for the worst, and under Enfield they've always figured it out and it's probably going to be. If they figured out this year, it's probably going to be too late to really matter, but I still think I want to watch good basketball from this team. Even if they don't win every game or if they don't make the tournament, I still want to see them play well.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And and that's certainly still within within reach, because, because we've seen them play well this year, so hopefully coming up we got Cal and Stanford Cal tomorrow night, on Wednesday, at Gaelin Center, and and then we got Stanford on Saturday, who is fresh off a victory over Arizona, smashing of Arizona for the second year in a row at Maples. And it just goes to show you again, arizona has lost three of their last five, which you know. Usc has lost three of its last five as well, actually three of its last four, five of its five of its last six. But but look, the point is is that even Arizona, who people were were talking about being the best team in the country, even they can get Steve rolled on a given night.
Speaker 1:This is not to say that USC is anywhere close to where Arizona is as a team. It's just that some portion of USC's losses this year are just kind of what happens in college basketball, and I don't know if I don't know if the players realize that that, hey, going up to Oregon's, they're going to probably give you a tough game, no matter what, it's not going to be a cakewalk. So so I just it's hopefully a learning experience these guys, and hopefully they can just get a couple wins here at home and use that as a way to start turning things around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, agree, it's just. You just got I'm going to sound like like like Steve Lavin here you hope that you don't lose the lesson as well as losing the game. I think he would always say that a lot, but it's true, you know, god, just fill the sorrow and understand. Okay, we need to be better, and I don't that. That's if that. If there's a concern, it's just. I don't know if it's. You know, are they? Are they upset to the point where somebody's going to make a difference? Going back to, it seemed like it at halftime of the Oregon game, when they came out in the second half with their hair on fire, and I don't know if that was their last, their last gasp where they just need some home cooking, and we'll find out, though yeah, it would be great if they could come out and shoot well and play hard.
Speaker 1:But Cal has improved. They're playing with energy, so it's not going to be easy. It wasn't going to be easy beating Cal and Stanford even if we had been playing well coming in, because every game is a dogfight to some extent. But I'm not going to make any predictions on the on the this homestand coming up Cal, Stanford and then, I think, Washington State gets their one game against USC. But let's just say that if the Trojans can put together three wins at home, then you're looking at nine and seven and and three and two in league and at least you're feeling better about yourself and you have a chance to turn things around. But then you go on that really tough road trip. So but that's why these home games are so crucial for for standing in the in the conferences, to get these home wins under your belt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that that Cal game. You would know this better than me Is Jalen Celestine. I see he's missed a few of their games. Is he playing now? If I'm looking at Cal as an offensive unit, he is the only one that really scares me. When we say they're Pac 12 preview. Jalen Cohn has a lot of buckets but he's had a lot of opportunities and not efficient. Celestine is the only one that's kind of efficient on their whole team. Otherwise this is not a really good offensive team.
Speaker 1:He's a cow. He's been a cow the whole time.
Speaker 2:OK, I'm confusing someone else, he came from New York.
Speaker 1:He played a little bit as a freshman, played some as a sophomore, averaged eight points, seven point, five points, three rebounds as a sophomore, and then he missed all last year with a knee injury. So so he's coming back and then, and then I don't know if is Devon ask you hurt to, has he has even playing.
Speaker 2:It's. He's only played five games this year. He started three.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but he's not been the same though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, his BPO is just under forty five, so not not the same guy that they were hoping to get.
Speaker 1:a completely reconstituted program under under Madsen, so they seem to show a little more life and energy, and if USC doesn't play with the requisite life and energy that it's capable of, they're going to lose that game too.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 1:And that's why I didn't take a hardcore deep dive into Cal and Stanford, because it's really at this point, it's just really not about players or matchups and X's and O's. This is really about whether USC wants to show up and be. The team is capable, would be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very fair, very fair.
Speaker 1:So all right, anything else you want to cover on this, this podcast?
Speaker 2:No, I just, you know, just to pick up on the mean minute from last week, I think the broadcasting was better, you know, not to make it the media minute, but I don't have that gripe If we do want to make it Mark's mean minute. Though, shout out to the Arizona fans who, when we, you know, tweeted out the the column, who, who had some very, very interesting things to say to me about my, my column. One of them rhymed with Buck metrics. I'll just keep it, yeah. So I hope they enjoyed their their trip to Maple's Pavilion and enjoyed their trip home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you had the temerity to note that they weren't the best defense of team, I think, in the conference, and they gave them 100 points at Stanford 100 points even.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nice Good job.
Speaker 1:But you know your call on Colorado was turning out to be looking pretty good right now. You got KJ Simpson looking like a player of the year candidate. Just been on fire lately it didn't. Guy didn't seem to miss, having ridiculous numbers both in field goal percentage and in three point range. He's certainly a daunting player to go up against, but maybe his pace right now is unsustainable and then hopefully USC can catch him when he's maybe coming back down to earth just a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah that, that one's at Colorado too, I believe Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the first one's at Colorado.
Speaker 2:So Yep Got to fix some things before that.
Speaker 1:Got to fix some things. I don't know if you, if you start with Brani and Sellers, but I think these are two guys that have probably deserve to get more minutes, because once you, once you replace guys at starting level, you're basically I think you could do, you could do a piecemeal Like, if you, I think you Kobe should come off the bench for a couple of games to see, like what happened last year, we're just to sort of get his head straight. But I think that if you you can't bench boogie, because then you just you're really packing it, packing in the season, if you bench boogie and I think you can't bench Isaiah Collier, because you know, I think what you do is you just you start them but you don't play him as much Is what you do with that. That's kind of what happened against Oregon State, where he really wasn't on the court toward the end of the game. Yeah, but I don't think you can not start him because Really it just becomes too much of a thing that can be used against you in recruiting. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:I would just, I would also just not use it either, or you don't you? We don't see a lot of sellers in Brawny on the court at the same time. At this point, I'd say, why not?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:So we'll see Brawny 15 points last game played some defense. Maybe he can come in and remind Kobe of what he's capable of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, said so, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, that'll do it for this week's episode of the Doug City podcast. Let's hope the Trojans get it turned around. Game against Cal on Wednesday and against Stanford on Saturday, and we will see you next week. Fight on everybody, If not in the next week fight on there.