Mark and Chris discuss USC's late season road surge that saw it win two of its last three away from Galen, how the team is suddenly playing its best ball, and how Kobe Johnson is still the engine that makes the Trojans go. They also harken back to past Trojans who were as dominant as Isaiah Collier was against Washington, project how SC might do in the conference tourney and look ahead to the final home games against ASU and Arizona.
The Dunk City Podcast is the podcast of record for the USC basketball community. You can find all episodes at DunkCityPod.com, USCBasketball.com or on Apple Music, Spotify and Amazon. Contact us at USCBasketball.com@gmail.com.
Mark and Chris discuss USC's late season road surge that saw it win two of its last three away from Galen, how the team is suddenly playing its best ball, and how Kobe Johnson is still the engine that makes the Trojans go. They also harken back to past Trojans who were as dominant as Isaiah Collier was against Washington, project how SC might do in the conference tourney and look ahead to the final home games against ASU and Arizona.
The Dunk City Podcast is the podcast of record for the USC basketball community. You can find all episodes at DunkCityPod.com, USCBasketball.com or on Apple Music, Spotify and Amazon. Contact us at USCBasketball.com@gmail.com.
Welcome to the Dunk City podcast. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the Dunk City podcast brought to you by USC basketball comm. I'm Chris Houston here with Mark Baxter. Always easier to do a podcast after a win, and USC has now won two of three. After defeating Washington up in Seattle on Saturday 8275. The game before that at Washington State on Thursday night in Pullman was a 75 72 very tough fought, close-fought, hard fought game that the Trojans were not able to to take away. So the Trojans return this Thursday to To Galen Center to play Arizona State. That will be on Fox Sports 1 at 8 pm Pacific Time and then Saturday they close out the season versus Arizona in Galen at 7 pm Pacific Time on ESPN and we will find out a little bit more about what this team has going for it in these next two games and there are potentially some interesting times ahead. But of course it could just be More the same. What do you think, mark?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well to be determined. Although about this time last week I said, hey, if we just went one up north, I think that really changes the tenor of Of the rest of this season and it really did. Now, obviously, a close game loss To Washington State, you know, really change in there if we just get run off the court there it's very different. But you know you have a team that's one, two, three on the road. I don't know how many teams have done that in the pack 12 this season.
Speaker 1:Not not a lot, I would eventually guess yeah, and three of five overall, with one of those losses in double overtime and the other coming Basically down the last possession. So, and then going back further a few games before that, another overtime loss at California, there was a Fiasco at Maples Pavilion at Stanford. But other than that, the last eight games for USC Trojans are break-even, which is Not necessarily reflective of how well they're playing. They're playing, like I tweeted out recently, not like a team that is in the bottom third of the league, but but like a team in the top third of the league. But apparently, according to your latest column, a lot of those metrics Along, the analytics based on your metrics bear that out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they do. You know, basically for the month of February I've got USC with the fourth best offense in the conference and the fourth best defense, which is Surprising. It kind of defies the eyes, although I think that the memories really stuck on the December and January lethargy that we saw.
Speaker 1:So overall my metrics have them second, basically since Since January mercifully ended right and it makes sense because even going back to you, go back to Washington State game, right and USC again had a, was it? Was it another 15-point lead? I believe the Trojans had.
Speaker 1:That sounds about right 14 might have been 14, but again, if this was no problem, usc has been doing this of late. If you go down and Look at the schedule and obviously there is the big 28-point blowout win over Oregon State, california actually was reversed. Usc came back to tie. That send that to overtime. Stanford was never competitive, but USC versus Utah USC definitely had a large lead against Utah. They had a 15-point lead against Colorado. They had a double-digit lead at one point against UCLA. They were a 14 or 15 on Washington State and I think they were up Around a 15-14 against Washington as well. Is that correct mark?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that all sounds right to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's actually. I mean, if you, if you actually look at these last eight games, you had these really significant stretches where USC was dominant in Basically six of them or yeah, six of them, the only ones they weren't at Cal and at Stanford, but basically six of those games.
Speaker 1:They were basically Far enough ahead in the game where you would have said, hey, this, this looks like an impressive team. Of course they weren't able to close out a portion of those games, but it just kind of Shows you again, like we've been saying all year, these flashes of what they're capable of. And it seems like the flashes are getting a little bit longer and a little bit more like a habit these days.
Speaker 2:It's hard to judge those two because, as fans, there's a tendency to always think that number one you're, you're no better or worse than your last game. We're more optimistic times, you're as good as you're very best that you've seen all season. So the frequency of these, of these flashes, has definitely increased and, like you said, the duration, I think they're they're more indicative of what this team you know really is.
Speaker 1:Well, exactly, and let me ask you if, would you be surprised if, against Arizona State and Arizona USC pulled out to double-digit leads? No no, not at all right.
Speaker 2:Would I be surprised if you know if we just just distanced Arizona the whole way by double digits in the second half, that that would surprise me. But you know I wouldn't be surprised if we're up by 10, going the last media time out against them.
Speaker 1:Right, and so the point being is that is that's really we've? You know, if we're looking at small victories, we've reached the point as observers of the team, or we're not really surprised to see them come out and play well.
Speaker 1:Or to come out and play, like you know, with a level of energy right. It's pretty clear by now that the team has not quit on Indian field, which is both a testament to the players and a testament to the coaching staff for keeping things together and for everyone just sort of trusting one another, and it looks like they're still trying to work out these kinks and this is all practice for that. You know, it's all clean slate in Vegas and if you win for you go to the dance and They've got a pretty good. They've got a pretty good team on paper. They've had that team all year and sometimes, sometimes, it turns into reality now. Yeah, that's why they play the games. We'll see.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would. I would think too that this had to be a tough locker room to read and lead just. I'll just go back again to the December lethargy is what I call it. Just the team so so and frequently gave like a, you know, a decent amount of effort, and just to rebound from that is Saying something that's. That's, I think, when, when this season was really at risk Not that we've been awesome since or this has been a great season, but it could have really spiraled to like 20 losses level of just yeah well, it's a great point.
Speaker 1:You know, when you look at the schedule, it really is divided into like sections.
Speaker 1:The first section was the Kansas State through Eastern Washington right when, when you see Irvine aside because of injury, oklahoma last last second loss, that was a that was a five and two team and there was no there might have been some consternation about how the team was playing so far, but I don't think anybody at that point was thinking, okay, this is gonna be a team that's gonna struggle to go to a tournament, go to the tournament.
Speaker 1:So that that's the first part of the season. Then, like you said, the dissent, basically December, right, if you look at December, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 games, usc goes 1 and 5 in December, you and. But if you look at January, january is dominated by the last half of it because of, you know, collier being out and various other guys being out at various times, and so and then, and then you have that. So that's that section, then the last section being like Collier's return onward and it's basically like it's one of the few times where where you've had a combination of health and experience with the season, because because at this point as a Collier it really isn't a freshman anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm just. I'm just kind of track some numbers here real quick on the fly, just sequentially going through those, those segments. There's kind of three and then a spare change in between, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:If I'm just taking I'll call it the BPO 100 margin, just our offensive, less defensive BPO, for that first segment, through the Eastern Washington game, it was a plus 5.5. For what we call December I don't know if it's strictly December it's a minus 4.2. Wow, and then for I'm going to, I'm going to remove the Cowan Stanford games from January, because that was just a different, a different animal, if you will. Right, and how about? We just know? Ok, so if we just exclude those two games, because those, you know, the last last few games has shown us really what might have been with the Cowan Stanford home games.
Speaker 2:So, basically, from the Washington State game at home through the home game against UCLA, our margin was a minus 7.1. You know, I can't call it the lethargy, because there was sign of, there was at least signs of effort. Now, you know it involved a lot of I don't know, I think I think we had Oziah Sellars maybe playing point for decent minutes in a few of those games, which is yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't think anybody's preseason bingo card yeah, I was, I and and Brani and Brani. Yeah, played point, and you saw it at Arizona State. Arizona State pulled out the full court press, and that was pretty withering. I don't think they'll be able to pull it out this coming Thursday, though, so now.
Speaker 2:I would encourage you to try it. I'll say that, yeah, without their usual clutch and grab, exactly. And then for the last segment, basically from Oregon State forward, we're at a plus 3.5 margin. So you know, almost, but not quite as strong as at the beginning of the season. But you know just a serious, a serious kind of double bottom, if you will, one just through lack of effort and then the other through lack of of back court depth and experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think the problem was when they were, when they were bad, they were very bad and, yeah, when or when they were bad, things went very badly, and when they were good, they didn't go as good as they could have gone, right. So that's how you come up with the record that they're at Right.
Speaker 1:I mean they were pretty good in that first. There's first seven games. They were pretty good but because of injuries they lose, irvine, you know, because of DJ Robin not boxing out, they lose to Oklahoma or maybe they would have won an overtime, who knows, maybe they would have lost. And then, but really, the December swoon, it's really. I mean that those first three games. Gonzaga, the Long Beach State game is probably, I think, the most like painful game I've ever watched USC basketball, as far as just the horrible level of basketball being played.
Speaker 2:Somebody sat out a lot of the Kevin O'Neill air, I see.
Speaker 1:Well, it was right up there with with the worst of Kevin O'Neill, just the way like the game was transpiring. You know, it's just really just ugly, ugly basketball.
Speaker 1:But yeah, so that it's. But so, like again, when it was bad, the team was very bad and you know, the best this team has been is probably when it defeated Stanford in Galen was probably one of the best games. And then beating UCLA at UCLA was, you know, it's always a great accomplishment. They were very good up a Washington and you know, of course, losing to Washington State. They still play very well in that game.
Speaker 2:I thought so yeah, our actually our biggest I get. I'd say our best performance was probably Kansas State right and margin at 12.1, and BPO against the best team. That's kind of in that range, the other ones that we faced in that range of margin, where Bakersfield, eastern Washington and I'm still forgetting the name, but the Alabama State. I got at the Ackadome, whatever it was. Seaton Hall is a 60 and Ken Palm, yeah, we just didn't have that dominant margin from BPO at least, oh right.
Speaker 1:Fair enough, yeah, got it, got it All right. Well, the Washington State game tough game to lose. Washington State is a pretty tough team to beat at home. I was really overall disappointed in the loss at the end but overall very happy with the team's effort and, of course, the Washington game probably one of the top three performances by the team this year, especially given the setting and giving the fact that they really need to get the win. So good stuff to build on. And I was thinking I said on the board that maybe they would go two and two to finish the season and right now the Trojans have a chance to get that second win now at home against Arizona State. Yep, all right. Now let's go to our weekly segment called game theory, and that is usually when Mark comes up with a theory about the game.
Speaker 2:I've actually got three of different stripes. As I usually tend to do here, I'll start from the most macro and going back a little bit. This kind of came to me in the Washington State game and I think that the December lethargy where we just kind of, you know, once we got looked in the eye, we just gave up and we just got distance against good teams, I think that really cost us opportunities, not not to win but just to learn how to compete late against good teams, and I think we're bearing the brunt of that now.
Speaker 1:That ended up being the key to the team right Was getting guys developed and ready to play, and December just took a huge bite out of that and just it just really made all that impossible and it was like a domino effect. It felt like USC was always trying to catch up to where it had been and was always slipping back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good, good, not going to disagree, since you're agreeing with me. Number two, very different, and this is just more of a almost a philosophical another reason why I was at peace with that Washington State game, and I'm curious if you feel the same or you're going to pound the desk and say no, no, no.
Speaker 2:There were two specific three point looks that we got against Washington State, both in the second half there was one, recall your got really deep, almost you know, almost to the restricted area, kicked it out to boogie, just you know, right above the top of the key. And then Kobe actually will revisit this a little bit. He made a brilliant pass on the fast break to sellers on the right, on the right side, kind of above the elbow, for just a wide open three point look and and and. Both of those don't fall. And I kind of think that at least one, if not both, fall at home. I will. I will be okay with those kind of looks 11 times out of 10. And that's specifically why I was not really upset with that loss. It was wasn't fun, Wasn't like I? You know we partied with Chihuahua and the Los Ops, so I said hey, guys, we lost by three.
Speaker 2:But you know, I was like hey, I'll live with that, you know it's a given up the lead late stinks, but you know when we have those kind of looks they don't go down and you're on the road. I can live with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I wasn't expecting USC to win the game. So I think I was watching the game, sort of like I'm playing with house money, right, emotionally right. So it's like, hey, if they win, then fantastic. If they don't, well, I kind of thought they would anyway. But I agree it's. We know that for USC to have any chance to play well in the pack 12 tournament it's really going to come down to just getting all these guys at the speed. So I'm looking at player development more than I am game results, although obviously I want the team to win. But if you're losing a very close game against a ranked Washington state team up in Pullman and Isaiah Collier is nine of 17 and 24 points and you know, vincent DeWichuque was 11.5 boards and 22 minutes Right and and DJ Rodman is playing pretty solidly 8.5 rebounds, a block of steel, two steals and an assist.
Speaker 1:You know fills up the stat sheet a bit. So even Kobe Johnson 11 points, four assists, one block, four steals. By the way, kobe Johnson is now one of eight players in Pac-12 history who have had at least four steals in four games in a row. So that just came out today. One of those seven other players is Jeff Trapanje. So Kobe is back on his steel steel diet as like he was, like we've talked about, but anyway, so so yeah. So this was a game where we saw these guys kind of come together a bit. It didn't result in a win, but you're thinking OK, if they do it again against Washington, then we can start to put together some idea about this team now.
Speaker 2:Before I move on to game 30, number three, just you mentioned something, kobe, getting back to his steel game, he also got back to we. I think we didn't see this since November. He was doing it kind of often in November, that kind of it's. I guess it's technically a block shot, but it's more of like a held ball, just kind of like roofing a guy. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he plays a lot of help defense especially. He did that a lot with with Isaac Jones, of course, who is probably the best offensive player that Washington State has, and we really wanted to stop him that game. So we were very effective in getting him to turn the ball over. He had four turnovers and a lot of it was, you know, Vince or Josh holding him down the blocks and then either Kobe or Boogie or Collier coming coming from behind Blindside and slapping at the ball.
Speaker 1:Yeah or coming back when he turned to meet him, when he tries to dribble drive or something. So so, yeah, so it was. It was definitely a great strategy and definitely there was a lot of that from Kobe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I started to keep on going down the story. But you brought up an interesting point, jones, for the game was only a BPO 140.8, which is kind of you know, we have one of your players do that's like wow, rough night. Yeah, and he killed us in the first game. So yeah, he did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he's. He's a guy who transferred from a smaller school I forget offhand where he came from but her point being he wasn't a guy that was expected to be a great player for them, but he's turned into a really good player for them, so anyway. So yeah, usc of course comes back. Isaiah Collier, 14 of 23 or five or three point going against Washington, scores 31 points, gets a couple assists, a block and a steal overall, does that in 29 minutes, his best game as a Trojan.
Speaker 1:Boogie Ellis at added 17, dj Rodman at 17 is kind of funny thing about Rodman. We didn't mention about him going back up to Washington State and playing in Pullman, but you know, one of the quotes that was bandied about before the game was about how he, the reason he left Washington State was because he wanted to win and so he went to USC and it's kind of weird that, like you know, he wasn't losing when he was at wash or he was losing at Washington State when he was there and he went to USC and then USC started losing and Washington State started winning.
Speaker 1:You're not so no, no, no, I'm not, I'm actually not, I'm saying that you're not.
Speaker 2:No, I'm doing that for your benefit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not, I'm not, but, but it's like, because I don't believe that it's a complete coincidence. But I'm just saying it's like if you really wanted to distill something down in a completely ludicrous manner, that would be that correlation is not causation, as they say right.
Speaker 1:Exactly, but so anyway. Yeah, usc Collier 31 points. Ellis 17 points, dj Robin another nice game 17.6 boards. Had some really tough shots and some really key rebounds. Yeah, kobe Johnson six points, nine boards, five assists, two blocks and four steals. The Kobe of old returned against Washington. And when Collier is playing like that, and Boogie is playing like that, and Robin's playing like that, and Johnson's playing like that, playing like that, and Josh Morgan's coming in blocking shots, and I was I sellers coming in and knocking in six points off the bench Tough team to beat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do want to mention too, for those who didn't read the column, for the road trip you know, kind of kind of quiet, although he had a really crazy tough shot, I think, against Washington State sellers with the stuff yeah, sellers with the VP was 75 for the road trip and 27 minutes, just really, within this team you could not ask for more. That's exactly what. You went off the bench, that's what he's 1111 minutes against Washington.
Speaker 1:six points. You know that's what is that? 24 points, almost 24 points per per 40. You got instant offense right, you know it's funny though he did he did you notice he passed up another three. Yeah he had a. He had a nice it was. He had a nice clear shot and it wasn't like he didn't have forever to shoot it, but he had plenty of time to shoot it and he just wasn't feeling it and so he did he did his dribble.
Speaker 1:You know a little drive, pull up. I think that's the one he missed Well.
Speaker 2:I trust his pull up game to he and I think I compared him and I'll give you the reason why. I think I kind of compared him to Shellsteed just, and there's one other guy and it's just. He gets himself square so quickly without fail whenever he goes up, and he's so good at that. That's why I trust his mid-range game so much.
Speaker 1:No, I do too. I just would like to see you know he didn't attempt a three pointer. You know I just like he's shooting 43% from three point land or whatever it is, and and he's clearly the best three point shooter on the team, but he just doesn't shoot three pointers.
Speaker 2:Got to take that average.
Speaker 1:It's just, I mean, I guess All right, so any more game theory, yeah one more.
Speaker 2:This is more for you, since you're much more of an ex and O's guy than I am, but I saw this. I don't recall if I saw this in the wazoo game, but I'm pretty sure I saw this in the Washington game. We went to a zone and it looked like we did something we were using, using the guy from the weak side, just to go and cover that. That has to the free throw spot. Yeah, and it really I hadn't seen us do that before, or maybe I'm just in observance. I'm wondering if you saw that too. And it seemed to you know, for a game that was lacking defense, it seemed to be very helpful in at least slowing things down, and on Washington's end, no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we played very good zone the last few times we played it getting back again.
Speaker 1:I think it's. You're seeing, whenever you see Kobe Johnson in his element, which is playing that that help defense and just being a a nat out there, he's more effective as a nat than a pure, I think, lockdown kind of guy. He's just, he's just one of those guys that is a very annoying player to play against because he's got active hands and he's slapping at the ball and he's kind of aggressive and he's physical. So he keeps. He does a lot of that and guys, you know people mess up and he's relentless, right, but when he's when he's on a roll, he's, he's really tough and in these last few games he's been on a roll. So and we've seen throughout the season examples of when Kobe is like kind of not feeling it mentally, he just sort of shuts down in almost all phases. But when he isn't, when he is tuned in and turned on to what he's doing, as he has his last has been these last four games then that whole defense just gets better.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like he brings some kind of energy, brings some kind of infectious sort of like you know, wild hands getting the hands in the passing lane and just sneak it up on people and just sort of being aggressive and for some reason, when he does it, everyone does it.
Speaker 2:It's. Yeah, I think I might have made this point before, but you know, good passing is contagious and I think the defensive effort like that is contagious as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely it's. It's. The power was within you all along All these. All you had to do was click your heels three times, Kobe, and you would be back to where you want to be. You know as it turns out, All right, so shall we go to question time?
Speaker 2:Let's, I've got four questions for you. Let's hear. Let's just kind of continue that thread we were just on. And to go back to something we said probably about, I'm guessing, two months ago, maybe even longer, and I mentioned this in the column Is this still Kobe's team? Basically, will it rise or fall with with how he plays?
Speaker 1:I think it will rise with how he plays, but it won't fall with how he plays, if that makes any sense. I think USC has improved enough in some other areas to where, if he, if he goes out there and fails, usc will just bench him or, you know, put him on. You know they won't play him in a game. If he's having a bad game they'll. They'll remove him, like they've gotten to the past, the point where they have any second guesses about that. So they're, they're going to, just, you know. But if he's playing well, they'll keep them in there and he'll really help them. But I think they can, they've learned they can replace them because, because they get some of that with, with, with, with brawny.
Speaker 2:And you get score.
Speaker 1:You get scoring with sellers, so they can mitigate they can. They can now mitigate things when Kobe's playing poorly. They couldn't mitigate as well earlier in the season, right.
Speaker 2:So now it's like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's later in the season. Kobe's not playing well. Ok, sit down, kobe. We've got a few guys who started to play a little better, or you know from a you know about, we can do a different lineup. You know, not have you as a factor, but again. And if he's playing well, then you're like Huzzah and so you're probably having a pretty good game, because, because most you know most games Collier and Boogie if they're not shooting well, they're. They're at least important pieces to be accounted for during the game, right, and so they draw the defense's attention, whereas when Kobe is shooting two of eight or one of nine, he really doesn't. You know, people don't aren't really worrying about him that much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, my no, but he still is a factor on the defensive end, like as we saw in Washington. He was actually two of eight from the field. Yeah, he was. I want to say he was kind of a detriment on offense that it looked as BPO 100 is 50.8 for the game. Yeah, and that's what happens when you have five assists and you turn it over only once. You really make up for a lot of this shots.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean again, this is, this is. This is where two and eight to evade is acceptable, yeah Right, and especially if one of them is a key three pointer or whatever. If you get nine boards and five assists and four, four steals, you, you, I don't want you to go into an eight every game, but if you, if you didn't, if you average nine points, five assists and four steals, by the way you'd be like one of the best, you'd be like an all American probably. If you average those things Seriously, like if you have nine boards and if you average four steals a game, I think, like the leader in the country only average like 2.5. Like four steals is a lot Like you'd be a record breaking steel guy. But yeah, you could go to an eight every every week or every game If you average, if you average nine, five and four and two and two blocks, you know, but obviously he doesn't bring that every game, but it's good that he's capable of really stepping up In this manner, even when he's not shooting well.
Speaker 1:So he hadn't, he hadn't been doing that a whole lot this season. It was either, it was if he it was mostly. Oh well, I'm not shooting well, I'm just not going to do these other things, and I think he's maybe found his peace now. Who knows?
Speaker 2:Next question. This almost might belong in marks mean minute. So you just discussed Kobe's stat stuffing. Does that extend to having at least one just horrible decision with the ball and one this layup to, because that just seems to be part of the package at this point, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's. He's kind of like you know, you know Jerry Rice not comparing Kobe Johnson and Jerry Rice but Jerry Rice used to drop like one pass per game.
Speaker 2:You know, he's.
Speaker 1:This guy's got the reputation of being the greatest receiver ever but he always had like one drop per game. Kobe has like yeah, one blown layup, one, just like an explicable bonehead play. Usually he's. He really struggles leading the break. He has a hard time finishing on the break or, fine, knowing the right time to to get rid of the ball.
Speaker 2:It's that outlet pass from about halfway in the back court. It just when that goes. It just I just I know it's there's one of them's just not going to work out. Yeah, he actually made a really good pass later. To be very fair, he like took an extra second just to like an extra dribble and extra pause just to let the play develop a little bit more. It was, I'm pretty sure it was one of the many passes to Collier on the break. Yeah, you know so yeah but yeah.
Speaker 1:I like that analogy.
Speaker 2:Just you know, get that one out of your system. Thank you, mr Speaker. Can I join the Prime Minister in his call?
Speaker 1:And what's weird is that he really wasn't like this, I think, last year. No, he wasn't like he. He was very. He was much smarter, much smarter player, much more reliable, made all those shots. So it's really like Kobe Johnson is really just the microcosm of this team.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And like when Kobe Johnson has played well, the team has played well, and when he hasn't, no, they haven't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember, towards the end of last season, I remember thinking, and I think I actually tweeted this out hey, you know, boogie is awesome and Drew Peterson is awesome, but at the end of the game, the first guy I want on the on the on the floor is Kobe Johnson. And and now I'd say that if we're going offense defense, for sure you know it, if, if, if he goes out for sellers or somebody else on offense, my feelings aren't gonna be hurt.
Speaker 1:Oh, and also speaking of sellers, he got a rebound against, against Washington.
Speaker 2:No, oh, he got two against Washington state. I thought that was like God's sign that we're definitely gonna win this one. I Mean.
Speaker 1:He's an excellent offensive player at man. He does not have it. He does not get other stats. You know, like you look, you look at his across the line against Washington and it's like he had. He has one rebound and no personal fouls, no assists, no turnovers, no blocks, no steals. I think this has got to be a real reason for why he doesn't play more. Because you got a, you got it like and I know some of it's just situations, but you, you kind of like bring more to the table. You know, that's all yeah.
Speaker 1:Again, and I think he will eventually. But I think if there's a reason why he's not playing more, it's probably that.
Speaker 2:Agree, and you know, also for a guy that's off-ball, this isn't the most common thing, but he has a positive or an assist to turnover ratio greater than one. For, you know, not just for an off guard, but for an off guard who is actually pushed into playing point guard, and Not just playing point guard, but playing point guard in basically the Thunderdome East known as 10 B, a home game for ASU, that's Probably the most unfortunate place you can be asked to try to break a press.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, not a good place.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:All right number three.
Speaker 2:I've been a fan of this program for I guess, 33, 34 years now, I think, yeah, 34. I Cannot remember any instance of a single player just dragging a USC team, you know, over the finish line to a win, like we saw Collier do at Washington. Usually it's been team efforts. I've got one other game that is there's a weak comparison to. We get back into that. But I'm kind of curious if you can just remember if I'm just missing something, or you can think of just one player that says oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Not gonna, not gonna, let this one get away from us there's.
Speaker 1:There's a few games that I remember.
Speaker 2:Please go on.
Speaker 1:So there's a game when David Bluthenthal had 28 rebounds, tied the USC record set by Cliff Robinson. Yeah, against, I think, was Arizona State, and what had happened was Sam Clancy had been broke his foot. That's right.
Speaker 1:Yep and also I think Someone else was hurt might have been Scalabreen Turner was Turner was probably out. That point too right. Turner was that like there was a there's a bunch of injuries and basically he had to play, he had to come, he had to play power forward, he had to take places and he and he came in and he had 28 boards and then he, you know, he started hitting all these three pointers and he just, really just powered the team to the win.
Speaker 1:That comes to mind. I know there was a couple the the Damar de Rosen game in the Pac-12 tournament against ASU. Down the stretch. I thought he really kind of dominated that game. The there is a Ryan Francis game Against. I think it was against North Carolina.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say North Carolina yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where he just Just he defensively manhandled them. And then Beyond that there is I guess there was a game with McLaughlin McLaughlin against when it was. It was. It was a little turn might have been, it was a little Vegas tournament. They played his senior year and I forget which team they, which team they beat. It was like it wasn't you and LV, it was a team like you and LV. But he pretty much put them on the back. Those are just some thoughts you know, off the top of my head.
Speaker 2:Okay. The one I thought of and I can't count. This was Adam Spanish in Oregon. Yeah, although he was, he was not guarded on either of those shots that he made.
Speaker 1:That's why I just can't count it well it's, although it's pretty amazing, it's kind of funny, yeah, oh, but it's kind of funny because, like you know, according to to most people, if you just had, if someone had just run out on him, he wouldn't want to made those shots, that's that easy, that easy okay, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:Thanks.
Speaker 1:You know, I know there's some other examples. I think I'm pretty sure there's some examples with Nick young or gay Pruitt. I Feel like there's been a couple games with and I know OJ Mayo had a game or two when he was just really lights out and then even going back, same Clancy had some games, but that David Bluthenthal game 28 rebounds man, that was he, that guy. You put that guy in this team.
Speaker 1:No, my god this would be be a pretty good team, I mean. Yeah, I mean if you get on paper right. So who knows how things ever actually match, but a player like that, david Bluthenthal, excellent, excellent player.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think we actually took both ends of that homestand because I think that we actually beat Arizona on that that Saturday in the. Here's a deep cut in the Abdullah L Moghbari game. We held his own against Michael Wright.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right, that was this during that. That wasn't that same stretch.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, you know funny little thing about David Bluthenthal when I first started at sports information he was the first USC athlete who I wrote a profile on for a game program. So I interviewed him when he was a freshman and I wrote a little story about him and then a pretty good story, if I say so myself, and and and well, it's funny because I was an intern and the story caught the eye of my future boss and it was realized I could write from that. So and then the other thing was the wife read your story from way back.
Speaker 1:And then and then. The other thing is that there was a intern at the USC basketball office who Rented a room from me during a summer and she just so happened to be dating David Bluthenthal, who used to come by and see her. Yeah, so I, so I, you know, I'd already interviewed him, so I knew David. And then a few years back, maybe like six or seven years ago, I ran into him outside Galen and I have his number, of my phone. Maybe I should get him on the podcast sometime.
Speaker 2:That would be awesome. Yeah, oh my god, yes, please, a good idea anyway, sorry for the on-air live brainstorming, but no, yeah, it's all good. Yeah. Next next question one, one more quick, oh go ahead.
Speaker 1:I'm saying next question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one more question, and this is genuinely a question, because I don't get it and maybe because I'm just a middle-aged guy who works from home in Newport Beach and I miss basically everything because I don't have tiktok. So you can help me maybe with this one.
Speaker 1:I have tiktok.
Speaker 2:Okay, maybe you have to look this up. On tiktok what exactly is the purpose? Slash message, slash gag of Of someone in the opposing students section wearing a LeBron James jersey? I Just I'm not. I'm missing the message on this one. Why are they? Is it sarcasm? Is it? I just I don't get it. Is it homage? I don't, I don't get it.
Speaker 1:I think they're Lakers fans, or are they like LeBron James I?
Speaker 2:Think so you're just gonna happen to wear that where we're brawnies. I.
Speaker 1:Know, I think it's a nice gesture. I think it's like a yeah, I think it is a nice gesture. I do Like this is without you know, knowing anything further, but I think there are people who are NBA fans who just really like LeBron and LeBron Suns playing, so they're like yeah. I'm gonna wear, wear LeBron jersey, you know and sometimes, sometimes LeBron's, at these games too. So maybe people want to, like you know, stand out if they can see LeBron you know, I don't know, but I think I think for the most part it's probably you well meaning.
Speaker 2:I kind of thought it was more of a like you know, like almost like a like kind of a wardrobe chant of your brother's better kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Maybe, maybe, maybe. I mean, I wouldn't put it past him, yeah, because I don't.
Speaker 2:it's like okay, hey, you know what, chris, let's do this Saturday US season town, let's go and let's boo that kid who had a heart attack, like seven months ago. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:And you know what else, oh where?
Speaker 2:are my Lakers Jersey to my LeBron Jersey. Well that's, I can't tie the two together.
Speaker 1:Well, that's the thing, though, is that if they already own a LeBron Jersey, I don't think anybody's going out buying a $70 Jersey or however much those things cost. But if you already had a LeBron Jersey, the guy already likes LeBron, which means he probably follows Brani on on Instagram or something, Right Cause there's there's a lot of fans of Brani because they like LeBron out there.
Speaker 2:In Pullman.
Speaker 1:In the, in the basketball world. Yeah, yeah, LeBron is like you know. He's arguably the greatest. I mean, I'm not saying I think he is, but he's arguably the greatest.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to argue that. But then they're going to show up and boo him.
Speaker 1:Well, no, no Is the are the guys wearing the LeBron jerseys booing Brani?
Speaker 2:I'm just assuming.
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't know if, if, now, if they are booing I don't see them, them cherry in every basket that he makes.
Speaker 1:Well right, because I mean I wouldn't expect them to, but but I it could just be, I don't know. I really it's really hard for me to divine. I would, I would like error on the side of like being charitable about their intentions, but then I'm also not putting it past college students to come up with some angle that I'm not aware of or that this is some kind of you know some, some way to dunk on them or something. But I mean, I just I don't think there's any way of knowing. Maybe different people have different reasons.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I think that might be it.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So I'm just not missing something. It's, it's not. It's not being discussed in great detail in the TikTok world.
Speaker 1:And I'm just no, no, this is definitely not a TikTok thing. By the way, if you, if you, you know TikTok is pretty dang awesome, I have to say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1:This is fantastic content.
Speaker 2:I, just I. I don't want to have an addictive personality.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you'll never get off it If you yeah it's good, then Don't get. Don't, don't get TikTok, it's too good. Okay, you'll get the dopamine rush like crazy. All right, are we?
Speaker 2:ready for Okay, wow, with the echo, I love it. Okay, three, three things in Marksman minute. First of all, chris, you and I are are are good media consumers of college basketball and I'm wondering if you enjoyed as much as I did a good look up Braxton, mia's nose, as there was a foul that apparently was on Boogie Ellis, but we didn't know. Although we got Steve, yeah, screaming. That's a turnover, yes, um, again, going back to the.
Speaker 1:You know, one of my great pet peeves is just the, this, the, the, the, the, the two, you know, the, the second shot they have on the away from the action, on the coach or the player, like you said, up, up brand and Mia's nose. They usually it's a coach, usually it's a coach looking there, sitting there, looking worried, right, and, and, and. Then you come back and like you've, you've found, you know, you found out that that you missed a key play in the game, and and yeah, you come back and and all of a sudden it's a foul on Boogie. The foul was a ridiculous foul, like I don't know how you call a foul on that, on that play.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, yeah it's, but in Lapis, to whom we'll get more in a moment. His reaction made it sound like somebody had actually gotten shot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know it's ridiculous. Yeah, yeah, that's you would think and and I guess, especially with you know we get into March Madness, you'll see some of these early round producers really make the same mistake.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And especially late in the game when you're like, hey, you know it's going to be a full court press right They've been pressing last two possessions, right?
Speaker 1:So if the, if, if the guy makes the makes the shot, do not follow him down the court, right? Because you know the team is setting up for the press and if you follow him down the court, you know we're going to miss it when they, when they get the steal, and so, yeah, they and they. Just it's like you would think that after, after every one of these seasons, they have a little, a little retreat at. You know they go to some retreat and they go over like you know what they could have fixed and you know they're like, oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, you know, we got to be careful, like when the teams are full court pressing, not to do the hero shot and follow the guy who just made the shot down the court, cause we often miss, miss turnovers and it's important plays. We're like, yes, yes, gotta fix that, gotta fix it. But then somewhere, like you know, when they come back from their retreat and they get back to their, to their cubicles, that little sheet like just goes missing and they just, and the producers like are, you know, are like some intern has it and it gives it to the producer for the next next year and he's like, you know, whatever kid go get some coffee and he throws it in the trash. So I mean, it's just like it never, it never gets better and never improves.
Speaker 2:If, if you're being generous with the students, the opposing sections with LeBron jerseys, you're being extremely generous with that one. I think on these retreats they come up with a really dumb ideas like, for example, in a first round tournament game, you know what, if there's a, if there's a replay on a vital out of bounds call with like two minutes left, let's show Duke getting off the bus and going to the locker room.
Speaker 1:Yeah, at least they don't switch over to like Heidi, that might be on the list.
Speaker 2:You might have just jinxed it.
Speaker 1:They should do it. They should do like a new Heidi, a new Heidi incident. That'd be fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it might be in the way Well that was a good mean minute.
Speaker 1:I like that, thank you.
Speaker 2:I just one more question about the pack 12. Just, is the pack 12 network? Do they, are they not able to afford, at least in some broadcasts, replays? Does it seem like that? I don't remember seeing a single replay in the Washington state game. I think literally some games they can't do replay.
Speaker 1:I think it was because of the weird angle that they have up in there. No, it's, it's. I think it's just a matter of they don't have a lot of cameras and they don't get a lot of good shots. Okay, I'm guessing, but yeah, I mean, they don't. They don't, it's not. These are not high production value games, for sure.
Speaker 2:Such a nice phrase, phraseology, yeah, yeah, you know it's interesting Just as an aside.
Speaker 1:I was looking at Ken Palm while we're talking and USC is ranked 94th in Ken Palm and Georgia is ranked 93rd.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:And I was just thinking about how, when Silas Demary Jr yeah, chose to go to Georgia instead of USC, it's kind of a lateral move, as it turned out, and UCLA is 99th Geez, that's interesting that you know. I think this is a testament to how well USC's been playing of late, because USC is 12 and 17 and they're ranked ahead of UCLA. He was 14 15, so Interesting. Okay, so we've got Arizona State on Thursday, arizona on Saturday. What do the metrics and analytics show for you going into those games? Um, you know I.
Speaker 2:I'm showing that that basically you know kind of with where I've got is, is telling this Metrics wise, arizona States really kind of gone down the elevator shaft in the month of.
Speaker 2:February, as we've kind of gone up the stairway. As we've kind of gone up the staircase here yeah, changing venue, changing personnel. Versus the last time we got them or we faced them, I think that we're gonna get a decent amount of revenge Now. We're certainly capable of having a good dry spell at the end of each half, but I think we should win this one more comfortably than not. It comes to Arizona State.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Well, hopefully, I think the main challenge is gonna be, I say, a Collier and Frankie Collins. Collier did not play Collins last time and Collins just wreaked havoc. He leads the pack 12 in steals so and he's very fast, so he's gonna be a challenge for For Isaiah Collier, and of course, collins didn't have to play Collier last time, so that kind of gave me things a little easier on him. So Kind of goes both ways. I think you're right. I think USC Should pull this one out, in which case they will be at that point winners of three or four and four or five Feeling pretty good about themselves going into Arizona.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one was saying that it should be pointed out in the ASU game. I think that that was still far, far less than full health boogie in that game too. What was he up for that one?
Speaker 1:He was out, I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, I. That makes a difference clearly. Yeah, I'm pretty sure they didn't have.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty sure they didn't have a boogie, collier and Morgan and that game.
Speaker 2:There were yeah, that's, yeah, that's right, that's what Morgan was.
Speaker 1:More. Morgan miss three or four games at the same time that boogie missed some games and Collier missing you.
Speaker 2:Yeah okay.
Speaker 1:So Arizona are currently leading the league 14 and four, record 23 and six overall fifth in the latest AP poll. They are second in the country in points per game, 225th in points allowed and they have a. They are rated the sixth best offense by Sports reference and a 30 second. That's defense and your metrics have pretty good results as well for the well-cats, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have them by far. Basically, just net that split from February forward. I've got them as clearly the number one team of the conference, best defense and the best offense, which makes you hard to beat now when there might be some vulnerability over the season. Their, their offense is very consistent between home and road. Mm-hmm. Their defense is very different. They've got a difference of almost 16 points in terms of power rating, defensive performance, on the road versus home. So you know, our, our best chance would be, you know, winning a 90 to 88 kind of game, I think oh yeah, yeah, I agree it's.
Speaker 1:It's gonna be one of those games where USC goes toe-to-toe and and. But it's gonna be cool because it's not very often that that things turn out well when they've been set up to sort of go that way or when it looks like it's gonna be set up to go that way. And this is one of those cases where this is Boogie Ellis's last game at Galen Center, this is likely Isaiah Collier's last game at Galen Center, josh Morgan's last game could be a lot of guys's last game and Certainly this is not a game that matters in any real sense. Like USC has nothing to lose in this game, arizona has nothing to lose. Like they're not worried about losing this game and they meant there may not be a lot of sense of urgency about the game. And certainly You're gonna have Isaiah Collier wanting to prove himself, boogie Ellis wanting to go out the bang now. And, like I said in the past, these types of games where where on paper, things look like they could be emotionally and advantageous for USC, haven't always worked out Especially. Or maybe USC showing momentum and what's happened in recent years as they've? They've shown momentum and then they've kind of smacked into the Arizona wall. But and you know, and, and whatever USC does in this game Doesn't really, isn't really contingent on what's gonna happen, doesn't really point to what's gonna happen in the pack 12 tournament.
Speaker 1:I was, we were talking a little bit offline about Oregon State back in 2021. This is a team that was 14 and 12 to end the season and they lost their last game against Oregon. And you wonder, was this a very hot team, you know, at the end of the year? No, they were five and five to close to close, actually five and seven, I'm sorry, six and seven to close out the year. So they weren't particularly hot to close out the year. And then they just went and and won three in a row in the pack 12 tournament Beat UCLA, be at Oregon.
Speaker 1:Beat Colorado UCLA, who made the final four. Oregon to make a sweet 16 in Colorado made a sweet 16. So Could this team be a lot like that team? I Don't think we're gonna find out against Arizona, but I Certainly if USC puts all together and beats Arizona. Well, this is a good question. Is that? Does that give USC an advantage going into the pack 12 tournament? Probably, rephrase this if USC beats Arizona, does that help USC for the tournament or does it hurt USC for the tournament?
Speaker 2:That is a tough one. I, I, I actually think what's best would be like a close loss on a bad call. Yeah which um.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you get a piss. I don't know if we play the.
Speaker 2:Colorado game against them.
Speaker 1:I think that's the best outcome put a little chip on their shoulder, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, give them because, because, because you don't, it's like, do you want to give this team too much success before they really need their success?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no, thank you right.
Speaker 1:Okay, right now USC is an 11th place. There are six and 12. It looks like they've They've got no worse than 11th place locked up. They've got a chance to Move up to 10th place. If Stanford loses to Well, they play Cal they play Cal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Stanford has not. They have not won a game since they just dunked on our head repeatedly up in Palo Alto yeah, they've they've just.
Speaker 1:They plummeted to their, to the Nadir.
Speaker 2:They have their Nadir two podcast right now exactly.
Speaker 1:So, theoretically, if USC split Well, usc splits against Arizona, the Arizona's and Stanford beats loses to Cal, then both USC and Stanford are tied for 10th.
Speaker 2:Stanford win that because they beat Arizona at the beginning of the year.
Speaker 1:Is that the win after? Because they split against each other.
Speaker 2:They split head to head. Yeah, so I think you just go from the top and whoever beat the best, whoever beat the best.
Speaker 1:What if USC beat Arizona, beats Arizona?
Speaker 2:Well then we would be ahead of them anyways. Then what if we lose Arizona?
Speaker 1:What if we lose Arizona State?
Speaker 2:Okay, that would be probably the most awkward podcast yet.
Speaker 1:One week from now. Right, but if you okay. So the best USC can do is USC goes 8 and 12 sweeps Arizona's. The best it can do is 1234567 is 8th.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they would be right behind Cal, right 123456. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, usc can be anywhere between 8th and 11th, depending on how the weekend, how the week, shapes up. So let's just say that USC finishes 10th, though for just for argument's sake, that would put USC against Arizona State, I think it looks like probably you know from that group of or maybe UCLA Cal ASU in Washington, which I don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean it's. I'm great with that group. Yeah, I feel like all those teams are beatable. I'm not really scared of any of these teams and it's really hard to beat the teams that did sweep USC. It's always hard to beat a team three times and to do it on a neutral court. So, especially with potentially USC playing as well as it played all year, yeah, it's kind of it's kind of weird, you know, it's just like you know. Again, who knows, maybe USC goes out in the first round. But it's strange to think that if you were to, if you were to look at USC's roster back in October and say, is this a roster that can win the Pac-12 tournament, you'd say sure, yeah, and so so in a way, is December happen? Yeah, but in a way, as long as this, if USC's, if USC had won the conference, it might be playing as as well as it is right now. Potentially I'm not saying like it would be playing that that whole year to win the conference. Right, like you can win the like Arizona had a rough stretch.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, Let me kind of put that another way. If we were to win the conference we would have we would have won two of the last three on the road.
Speaker 1:Right, which we did Right. Yeah, right, exactly it's. So we're playing at a level that is that is sort of commensurate with what we expected to play at to compete for the conference title now, and you could be a pretty good conference team and still have a stretch where you go for and for, like I think Arizona came pretty close to doing or they lost three games and in a week or something like that, or in 10 days. But the point being is that none of that stuff that happened in December matters anymore. It's when it comes to the Pac-12. So we might, we could be the first place team or the last place team, and all it really matters is what team we're bringing to the court. And when they play well, they're pretty tough.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I think I put it this way. The one thing I would just maybe disagree with you a bit on this I feel a lot more comfortable if we miss that eight nine spot and, let you know, leave it up to Oregon maybe to knock off Arizona, rather than this having to do it.
Speaker 1:But no I agree, I agree.
Speaker 2:I'll put it this way the joke that I made about three weeks ago about the path to the winning the tournament relies on Oregon State finishing sixth.
Speaker 1:I think we're past that. Yeah, exactly. Yes, indeed, yeah, it's, it's a long shot, but like it happened three years ago. So stranger things have happened and we shall see. That's why. That's why they play games. So All right, well, thanks everybody for listening to this week's episode. We hope you enjoyed the podcast and we hope you continue to tune in. And, of course, if you have any need to discuss USC basketball, you can always go to uscbasketballcom, the men's forums, women's forums, talk USC hoops or get us on Twitter. Mark is at at buck metrics and we are at USC basketball underscore on Twitter, and we're also on Tick Tock, mark's favorite, and we haven't had much content there lately, but but yeah, we're there and there could be some. You never know. Maybe there'll be something in the future that that draws your eye and you want to stop by and talk to usc basketball. We hope you do. All right, mark, I'm going to say fight on and I'll leave the rest to you.
Speaker 2:As always, everyone fight on.