The Dunk City Podcast
USCBasketball.com's Chris Huston and Mark Backstrom co-host the Dunk City Podcast, the only podcast that's devoted solely to USC basketball. Weekly during the season, intermittent during the offseason, the DCP is the "podcast of record" for Trojan hoops, featuring inside information, special guests and expert analysis.
The Dunk City Podcast
USC assistant coach Todd Lee
The Dunk City Podcast is the podcast of record for the USC basketball community. You can find all episodes at DunkCityPod.com, USCBasketball.com or on Apple Music, Spotify and wherever you stream podcasts. Look for clips on YouTube and TikTok as well. Please like, follow, listen and review. Contact us at USCBasketball.com@gmail.com.
All right, welcome back to another episode of the Dunk City podcast brought to you by uscbasketballcom. I'm Chris Houston, along with Mark Baxter. Mark, how's it?
Speaker 3:going All is well here in Southern California and I am extremely excited about this episode.
Speaker 2:Yes, indeed, we have on today assistant coach Todd Lee of the University of Southern California basketball team men's basketball team. He'll be on a little bit later. Today was the second practice for the program under Eric Musselman and we did send one of our reporters out there to have a look at the team. I'll give you some thoughts on that later. Mark, how's your summer going? I'll give you some thoughts on that later.
Speaker 3:Mark, how's your summer going? Very well, you know beautiful weather here. I'm in Newport Beach Just enjoying myself and taking it slow, as they say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what it seems like is happening with Coach Musselman. Every time I look at him on Instagram, he's out there traipsing through the Manhattan Beach wildlife and going through the back alleys and looking for stray basketball rims. So he's definitely looks like he's a guy who's really excited to be back out on the court. Let's, for now, take a look at what the practice was like today. So, according to our man, jabari Jelks, who was there at practice on Thursday morning a lot of energy going on. They were simulating offensive and defensive drills. There was a lot of offensive focus working on ball movement, learning how to take the correct shots, finding tendencies, so on and so forth. A lot of focus on communications.
Speaker 2:As far as player notes go, terrence Williams was impressive with his shooting. Looks very comfortable in drills. Josh Cohen looked good. He's a critical X factor heading into this year. He's a great floor spacer, has a nice stroke from the corner.
Speaker 2:Isaiah Elohim, a smooth jumper from the elbow, well-built freshman, could surprise and definitely a very intriguing player when his shot is falling. Clark Slackert Musselman referred to him as his second point guard behind Desmond Claude Looked good in drills. Made a couple of spot-up threes during the scrimmage. One little note about Desmond Claude. He is going to miss all the summer. He had a bit of cleanup on one of his elbows and they're going to do another cleanup on his other elbow and then he will be counted upon to be the main point guard for the Trojans.
Speaker 2:Chibuzo Agbo looks bigger in person than listed, great size as a shooter, shot well during practice and had a nice move off the dribble. He has a lefty finish during the scrimmage. And then St Thomas huge player for a wing, pretty good pull-up jumper from deep has a chance to become a versatile defender. We're going to talk more about these guys. We'll have Coach Lee coming up talking more about them and we will be sending Jabari out to USC practices every once in a while to get some updates. We're also going to provide some quotes. In fact, let's hear what Chibuzo Agbo had to say.
Speaker 4:I think my basketball IQ is one big thing I want to improve on. I think that, just like I said earlier, you know, coach, being an NBA coach, I have so much experience it's just going to rub off on me, as well as my ability to get fouled. You know, that's something I was working on a lot during the summer, so getting to the bucket, being strong, attacking and getting some free throw line.
Speaker 2:In addition to talking to Chibuzo, agbo Jabari also talked to St Thomas, and here's what St Thomas had to say.
Speaker 5:I mean I was talking to Coach Muss at Arkansas and he just really told me my fit and opportunity. I didn't want to know the dollar sign, what I was going to get, and to me I just wanted to know the fit and opportunity and where I fit best at. And that's what he gave me. And everybody else in the portal I mean I said this multiple times was just kind of hating on Coach Must and telling me like he's going to pressure me to commit, he's going to do this, he's going to do that, is going to do that. It's crazy. But I mean, aren't we all crazy about to win? So that's all I'm about and I mean this is the best spot for me.
Speaker 2:The only remaining player from last season is Harrison Hornery. Here's what he had to say about the second day of practice.
Speaker 6:Mus very organized, very passionate, very loud. I mean practice is very intense and upbeat, as you guys probably saw today. It's been a good change. I mean, one's not better than the other, but they're just different styles of coaches and we're going to win you at must, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:Why'd you stick?
Speaker 6:around. I want to graduate from USC. I take pride in this place. I think I'm a pretty loyal person Coming from Australia, coming all this way there's. Take pride in that.
Speaker 2:Well, there definitely is a new sheriff in town. Eric Musselman brings a new style, new energy to the program, as Harrison Hornery mentions, and certainly it's going to be interesting to see how all these different moving parts are put together by Coach Muss, who certainly has a great reputation and a past track record of doing just that. Now we're excited to bring on the show one of his trusted confidants, todd Lee, the assistant coach for the USC Trojans, who has had a long career in college basketball goes back 30 years with Coach Musselman, graduated from the University of South Dakota in 1986. His first coaching job was as an assistant coach at Southwestern College and then he ended up at Hank Egan staff at San Diego in the early 90s. And then he met Coach Musselman at the Rapid City Thrillers of the CBA and that was an interesting time, as you'll hear. So he brings a lot of experience to the staff and he seems to be really in tune with what Coach Musselman wants to do and we really enjoyed talking to him. All right, coach Todd Lee. Assistant coach University of Southern California. Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2:The Dunk City podcast.
Speaker 1:Great to be here. Guys. Appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 2:Well, welcome back to Southern California. You've had quite a few stints in the area as an assistant before getting head coaching jobs at Kentucky, wesleyan and then at your native South Dakota. How do you like being back in Southern California?
Speaker 1:Well, it's great to be back. I spent 18 years in Southern California. My career really started at the University of San Diego and that's the connection with Coach Musselman, and we were part of the what is called the San Diego Mafia with Hank Egan, mike Brown, david Fisdale, james Borrego you know we've got a lot of guys that have coached in college and the NBA. So I spent six years in San Diego and then eight years in Irvine, three years in Bakersfield. So I have spent a lot of time in Southern California and and then I've moved around since then. But it's great to be back.
Speaker 2:Are you like Coach Musselman and an aficionado of the local surf scene?
Speaker 1:Well, he, he loves uh the beach and walking on the boardwalk and riding his bike down there. Um, I, I uh just got back from the beach, um, and it was uh beautiful today, so there's nothing more peaceful than going down there and walking or walking on the sand, and so, yeah, we both enjoy that.
Speaker 2:You connected with Coach Musselman 30 years ago back in the CBA as well, right, and then you kind of, I think, were you with him at any point after that, before Arkansas.
Speaker 1:No, you know it's an interesting deal. I was at the University of San Diego with Hank Egan and Randy Bennett, and so Randy Bennett was the other assistant coach, the head coach of St Mary's, and Eric played at the University of San Diego. I was an assistant coach. I was young. He would come back in the summers in between his CBA seasons and we got to be friends. We'd play basketball together, we'd go out to dinner together, and so I coached at the University of San Diego for a while.
Speaker 1:He offered me a job in the CBA with the Rapid City Thrillers as his assistant coach, so I was the only assistant coach. We were both the same age. We were about 28 years old at the time. We had the best record in the CBA both years. We were there, coached the All-Star team both years, and so we have not worked together since Arkansas. But he we always stay in touch for good friends. He has offered me jobs, but it's never been the right timing. I either got to be a head coach at the University of South Dakota or just got to Grand Canyon as the associate head coach with Dan Marley and couldn't leave, and so it's been a long time since we worked together, but we've stayed friends. We've helped each other through the profession and then, when Arkansas opened up, I got there and now here at USC. So it's great to be back with them, but it's been a while since we've worked together.
Speaker 2:Great. Well, what got you started in basketball? What, what was the allure of the sport and, and, uh, you know when did you decide to make it your profession?
Speaker 1:Well, it was I. I moved from the. I I graduated from the university of South Dakota and then I moved to San Diego with a couple of friends and I was a business major. In college I played. I was a failed walk on at the University of South Dakota. I tried over and over, just you know, wasn't quite good enough. I always loved basketball. I moved to San Diego. I started managing sporting goods stores. It was called Merle Harmon's Fan. Fair.
Speaker 1:And it was hats and uniforms and paraphernalia, all the team stuff. And I started to do that and I just said I can't do this. I've always been really competitive. I always wanted to, wanted to compete. And so I started coaching at a junior college in Southern California, in Chula Vista. I'm quitting my full-time job and getting rid of all my insurance and everything and I'm going to coach basketball. And they said, well, where are you going to coach? And I said I don't know, but I'm going to, that's what I'm going to do. And so, luckily, I hooked on at the university of San Diego, became friends with Randy Bennett and coach and gave me an opportunity. And you know, I've always wanted to coach and that was that was in 1989. And that was, you know, we were, we were good. It was when Pepperdine had Jeff Lear and Doug Christie and Loyola, marymount had Hank Gathers and Bo Kimble.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those are glory years of the WCC.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so my first year at the University of San Diego. We finished third in the WCC, behind Pepperdine and Loyola Marymount. Loyola Marymount was a top 20 team. And then we went to the WCC tournament. We beat San Francisco. We were getting ready to play Pepperdine. The next game in the semis, loyola Marymount was playing Portland. It was March 4th 1990. Randy Bennett and I were scouting the game, the semifinal game. Years old, 29 years old, and Hank gathers passed away right in front of us, um on the floor, and uh, the tournament got canceled and that was my first year in division one, college basketball.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow. That's a quite an introduction, um, uh to uh, to the sport or the, you know, to the profession. That's funny. A couple of things, observations most parents in the Midwest get a call back from their, their kid on the West coast, and they're, and they're told that the kid is going to become an actor or something. So one of the rare. And then the other thing is it's interesting that that you're from South Dakota and then and then you have such a connection to San Diego. It's the SD. It seems to be a running theme with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I went to USD University of South Dakota and I coached at USD University of San Diego. You didn't have to change your business cards or anything like that Right and our biggest rival was South Dakota State SDSU and USD's rival was SDSU. So it's kind of a strange thing. But yeah, both schools were USD.
Speaker 2:Wow. So what did you think when you found out that there was this opportunity to go to USC? What kind of program does USC look like from Fayetteville or from any of the other places you've been at?
Speaker 1:Well, I think one is USC's always had really good players, always had talent. It's in Southern California, a hotbed of recruiting. I've spent a lot of time in Southern California recruiting, obviously, the you know there's been great coaches that have coached here, from Coach Raveling, you know, coach Boyd because I've I you know, into the 2000s and so very familiar with USC and USC basketball, the history of it, uh, the great players, um, you know, I used to go to the sports arena and watch high school playoff games. Go watch a USC game back then you could live scout and so you know, I knew a lot, probably knew more about USC basketball other than Coach Musselman, than anybody on our staff because of, you know, being around it for so many years. And again, there's a lot of things that are great about it the area, the recruiting, the number of players.
Speaker 1:And I think for Coach, he has been at Nevada and Nevada was very successful for a long time or had great years. And then they hit a little bit of downtime and he revitalized that program right away and all of a sudden they're selling it out. You know the Lawler Center. Sudden they're selling it out. You know the Lawler Center, and they're they're selling it out. They're going to sweet 16s, um, you know, at Nevada, um, and then he goes to Arkansas and coach Anderson, you know, did a pretty good job there, but they they hadn't won. I think they may be one, one or two ncaa tournament games in like 15 years, and coach gets there and, you know, he goes to two elite eights and a sweet 16 and sells that building out, which is 19 800 people.
Speaker 1:And so I, he believes that that's what's going to happen here at USC we're going to sell the building. He's always done it and he has a way of promoting. We did it in the CBA too. You know, when I was with him, we just, wherever he has been, there's been excitement and energy in the program and we've heard that from a lot of people on campus already. We just started practice and people are coming to practice saying how this is completely different than it has been in the energy of the program, and so that's just what he does. He brings that. So there's a lot of great things about USC basketball and obviously, living in Southern California one of the greatest places to live is part of the allure.
Speaker 3:Hey coach, can I jump in here real quick with a question? I'm a metrics guy. I do my own metrics for the site. Kind of make that the basis of my existence. Question about the success that Coach Musselman had at Arkansas versus, you know, anderson in the tournament From a metric standpoint the production was almost exactly the same. The efficiency offensively and defensively, you know. It seemed that there was no huge improvement in like talent level or anything like that. It just showed a lot more in the post season. What do you attribute that to? As a numbers guy, it's, it's flummoxing to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, two years ago we had, you know, we did have four guys that went to the NBA and now they were younger, three freshmen. Anthony Black was a lottery pick and were younger three freshmen. Anthony Black was a lottery pick and Nick Smith and Jordan Walsh was a second round pick. Nick was a late first round pick and Ricky Council's playing in the NBA, but before that he's had one or two pros, whether it's Jalen Williams or Isaiah Joe. Joe, I would say this he is.
Speaker 1:He is great at game planning and I know a lot of coaches say that. You know, you give him a week to prepare for somebody, it's, it's all. It's a little bit like Bill Belichick where he figures out a way to beat a team. Bill Belichick where he figures out a way to beat a team and he can, and he can get the, the team and the coaches and everybody to buy into what we're doing. He might change, we might play slower, might play faster, we might do different things. He does not. He does not.
Speaker 1:Um, each game is its own little chess match and how he prepares. And if you give coach a week to prepare for somebody, he figures out how to take away their strengths and their best players and win games. Now he's also done it where now we all it's. It's either Thursday, saturday or Friday, sunday, so there's only another one day to prepare. But he has a way to prepare his teams for the first game and the second game, and he does that in conference tournaments. He also does that in the NCAA tournament. That's the one thing that I would say, mark, that stands out, the way that he prepares his team.
Speaker 3:Great. Thank you Appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Coach. What's your role on the team? What do you do? What's your assignment? What positions do you handle?
Speaker 1:Well, so what I've done at Arkansas and I'll be doing here is I do all the scouting prep work that the opponent, their offense, they run special situations, baseline out of bounds, sideline out of bounds defense, baseline out of bounds, sideline out of bounds defense. I prepare that for the team and so that's, whether it's film or on the floor or having our scout team running through their offense, the opponent's offense, I do that. I'm also in charge of baseline out of bounds offense, sideline out of bounds offense and zone offense. In charge of baseline out of bounds offense, sideline out of bounds offense and zone offense. Um, and so we, we are very coaches, very in-depth, and we're very in-depth with our scouting.
Speaker 1:Um, it's personnel. Um, you know, michael Musselman does the personnel. Uh, anthony Ruda does a lot of the offense and offense prep. This is how the team's going to guard us and this is how we're going to score against them, and this, these are the ways we're going to take advantage of it. My, my role, besides helping out, just coaching in practice and emphasizing the defense and everything that we're supposed to do will be game prep, game scouts, special situations taken away, you know what. But I would say this is I'm not the defensive coordinator. Coach Musselman is a defensive coordinator. He is locked in. I have never been around a more detailed head coach on the defensive end of the floor. I mean that is one of the reasons why he has so much success. It's his system, it's his defensive system. We all try to help him and contribute and he's great at involving everybody, but his attention to detail and intensity is the best that I've been around.
Speaker 2:What are the tenets of that defensive system? When you guys go and install, what are you trying to drill into these players' heads?
Speaker 1:One is just constant communication. He is great at getting the guys to over communicate and to communicate you have to know what you're saying. I know that sounds very simple, but you know terminology. We give our guys terminology to say all the time. So if they're not talking then they're in the wrong. You have to be talking all the time. Um, hands up out, um jumping jacks. He wants. He wants guys on the weak side to have their hands up and out, um hand in the eyeball on closeouts. Um, we do not want to give up threes. He has led the country in not giving up threes in the past. We will run guys off the line, but our biggest thing is active hands, active feet, communication. Obviously, toughness, the. We want to shrink the floor, we want to look big. That's why we have our. There's a hand in the eye and he learned that in europe. He's coached everywhere and he tells the story that's actually illegal in europe.
Speaker 1:You're not supposed to be able to put your hand in the eye um and he brought that back here and that's what we do. So every time we close out hand in the eyeball and where we, we do a great job of communicating, helping each other, rotating um, and I think there's a lot of carryover. There's a lot of really good coaches that have coached in the nba college. If you think about it, the rules are starting to change the the college game is becoming more like the nba game, and the reason why, I believe, is that the NCAA wants scoring, just like the NBA wants scoring. So you don't see a lot of carrying the ball anymore. You don't see a lot of travels anymore. You don't see a lot of illegal screens anymore. You know it's. They are allowing every. Every rule that they've changed has been to the offense, and so Coach Muss is an NBA coach. He's used to rotating all the things that the NBA does he's really, really good at, because that's that's where his background was good at, because that's where his background was.
Speaker 2:Do you try to adjust the system or what you guys like to do based on who you have on the roster, or are you mostly trying to get the players to buy into exactly what you guys are putting out?
Speaker 1:I think that there's always certain principles First. You know principles hand in the eye, hands up, all the things we have those, those are always going to be staples in the program that Coach Musselman has. You bring up a good point that the way we guard the ball screen we'll side it, which means our ice, we'll try to keep it on the side, middle of the floor. We like to weak it. But you bring up a great point. We've had discussions already this week. Is that what's best for our personnel? And Coach Willett look, he's coached 30 know, 30 some years. I've coached 30 some years. We've guarded the ball screen any which way you wanted to guard it.
Speaker 1:Um, you do def you definitely. He believes that you can really only guard it one or two ways, just because guys you know in in college um play less games than the NBA, but one or two ways. But yeah, we've already had those discussions. Is that the way we have always guarded it? Is that the best thing for this group of players? So, that being said, he will adjust based on personnel, but that's going to take some time.
Speaker 2:We've only had four days of one-hour practices and so we're trying to figure out what our guys are capable of doing also, I think USC fans are really curious to see how you're going to get all these new players to mesh together, because I'm kind of curious how long does it take to understand? Ok, I know what St Thomas can do. I mean, you saw him on tape. Maybe you saw him in person sometimes, but now you've seen him up close and you're like OK, I know he can do X, y, z, I know he can do this. I know he probably isn't best at this. Is it something that you need? I imagine some guys are like one practice in you already know right, and then there's probably a few guys that you might need five practices. Another guy you might need two months. Is that kind of how it goes?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's certain guys that pick things up quicker. There's also guys that buy in quicker. There's guys that will just automatically buy into what we're doing. But then there's others that will fight it a little bit. They're older, they've been in different systems or you know they're. They're trying to figure out where they fit in.
Speaker 1:I'll say this coach, from the time he started coaching in the CBA you know he was 25, 26 years old he always has roster changes. You know we had eight or 10 guys called up to the NBA every year in the CBA. He's coached in the minor leagues. He's coached overseas. He's coached in the minor leagues. He's coached overseas. Um, he's had guys leave his team in the middle of the year and then had to add somebody. You know he coached the defenders and he tells stories where he lost his point guard and then lost his point guard again and you know had to bring. So he has a little bit of you.
Speaker 1:You know, with this transfer, the way the portal is, you know coach is used to having guys for a shorter period of time and and fitting them into his program. That's just what he's had to do in the minor leagues and he's also had to do it at times in the NBA, but that he's. He's comfortable doing that and getting guys to buy in he's. He's really good at it and it's not. I'll be honest, for me it's it's not as comforting. He seems completely in his element. You know, I was. I coached at Irvine, I've coached at San Diego, I've coached at places where I've had guys before the. His confidence conviction to get guys to buy in quickly. I would say that that's a very big strength of his. There's no thought or question. He knows exactly what he wants and how he wants it From day one. There's not a lot of gray area. Obviously it's black and white. This is the way we're doing it and he gets guys to buy into it. He's great at getting the team to believe in it.
Speaker 3:You know, coach, you're hitting on some of the topics that I wanted to ask you about. A lot of experience coming in through the portal this year Don't know if you know this Of the nine incoming upperclassmen, they played a total of 277 games last season. Of those 277, they started 272. I look at that and I'm thinking that might get a little tricky in terms of managing the expectations of starting and playing time. Was that something that you're having to deal with?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we looked at that. You know, obviously we tried to find them as talented as group but also character guys that would buy in. You know, we had good character at Arkansas at times last year. I think whenever things don't you don't have as good a year as you want you kind of go and look at what you were missing. Was there a shooting? Was there were missing, was there a shooting? Was there a defense? Was there a character? What it was? We feel like we've got great character guys.
Speaker 1:But Coach has already said that I mean, if you add up the minutes, we know there's 200 minutes in a game, I mean for five guys, if you add up the minutes, there's a lot of extra minutes out there that guys aren't going to be playing. So it's going to be competitive. But we've also looked and saw there's a lot of guys on our roster that have played in NCAA tournament games, which is great to have. So you're right, we have some veterans that have played a lot of minutes. We've also have veterans that have played in NCAA tournament games and coach loves to coach veterans guys that know how to practice, know how to compete, and we feel like we have that with this group.
Speaker 1:We've talked about it after four days how this group is picking things up. Great to coach. We're coaching staffs excited going to gym with them. We're not pulling teeth. They're excited to listen and learn and get better. But you are right, I mean, whenever you get that many older guys, there's going to be competition. Guys who are used to playing 28, 30 minutes may not play anywhere near that, but they've got to figure out their role and how to help the team win.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm also kind of curious how much of a factor is that in the recruiting and evaluation process? Is that something that's really brought to the forefront when you're visiting these recruits and, I'm guessing, maybe taking them to those walks on the sand that you enjoy so much?
Speaker 1:As far as what our roster is, Playing time.
Speaker 1:the division of that as what our roster is playing time, the division of that. Yeah, I mean, you know, to be honest, a lot of when you're recruiting. I would say we don't bring it up as much people we might be recruiting against. Maybe bring it up to them like, hey, just sign this, this, uh, young man in your position or he can play your position. We don't talk about that much, we talk about USC. How great it is living in LA, being in a professional town. There's so many contacts here, so many opportunities, the way we want to build the program, our goals. I think you know there's going to be competition, no matter where you go. I mean, if you're going to go to a really good program, there's going to be competition. So, guys, don't you know they can't shy away from it. Yeah, I'll give you an example, and this is always a great one.
Speaker 1:You guys probably don't know the name, but we had Delaney Rudd. You know he played 12 games for us in the CBA. He played in the NBA for a number of years, but so we used to bring in players in the CBA and he was our starting point guard. He said, look, I don't care who you bring in players in the cba and he was our starting point guard. He said look, I don't care who you bring in, I'm gonna beat him out and I'm not gonna be here long, I'm gonna be in the nba. Well, he played 12 games for us. He went to the nba. We never saw him again.
Speaker 1:Really, good players don't care, they don't care. You know, yeah, bring in who you want, I'm gonna beat to beat them out and I'm going to. This is going to be. You know, my, the guys that are worried about other players. Those are guys end up being role players or limited players just because they don't. They just that's just the way it works out. You know the guys that know they're good and they want you to bring in good players with them to help them win. Those are the guys you want in your program.
Speaker 3:Yeah that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Coach, what are your impressions of the players so far, after these first few practices?
Speaker 1:You know we've got really good size, not necessarily at the center spot. Josh Cohen is big, strong, strong, really skilled in there, good passer. Um Rashawn Agee is a big, strong, long arm. He's got seven foot wingspan one of the best rebounders in country last year. But we've got really good and coach loves to coach guys that are this. If you look at the guys that have been drafted with Coach Musselman, a lot of them are in that 6'5 to 6'8 kind of. They can play multiple positions. He really loves coaching those guys.
Speaker 1:We have a number of those that you know, whether it's Chibuzo Agbo, whether it's St Thomas, terrence Williams, even Desmond Claude who's going to be playing our point guard. You know he's 6'4", 6'5", but he's got long arms. We've got a lot of guys in that kind of you know long Matt Nolan from Yale, they're just long, six, five to six, eight. We've got good overall size, skill wise. We have a lot of guys that can shoot the basketball. You know it's it's early. You start figuring out, you know things that guys can and cannot do or what they need to improve on. But we we the group, has been great as far as working and listening and and energy and and I know everybody's excited. It's the first week of practice. You wish you could spend more time with them, but those are probably the early impressions.
Speaker 2:From a size perspective reminds me a lot of that 89 Illinois team with Nick Anderson and Kendall Gill Kenny Battle. Those guys were all like six, five, six.
Speaker 1:I think the tallest guy was six eight on that team yeah, and and coach, you know, has had teams like that and he's he's had a lot of success with them. And uh, it's funny because last year I just I said it earlier, you know, if you, if you lacked something in the previous year, you always seem to, you know, almost go overboard. Well, last year, at well, two years ago at Arkansas, anthony Black was 6'7", 6'8" as a point guard. We had Jordan Walsh, 6'7", you know, nick Smith, 6'5", ricky Council, 6'6". We had a bunch of guys in that, you know, and he's always had that.
Speaker 1:Last year we had guards and posts. We really didn't have those six, six, six, seven, six, eight guys that played those multiple positions. This year we have a bunch of them and we were laughing about it the other day and coach is like we can, almost, we, we definitely have a lot, a lot of them this year. Last year we, we were lacking that and he just feels comfortable with that. It'll, you know, gives you options defensively. You can switch more if you want. Um, the length, um defending the three, I think is a big one, you know, when you're longer on the perimeter. Um, anthony black, you know, was a point guard and and Jordan Walsh was our three man and we just didn't give up a lot of threes. And then this, the past year at Arkansas, we didn't change anything defensively but we gave up threes and then, but we had six, three guys closing out instead of six, seven guys closing out.
Speaker 2:All right, Mark.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, we noticed. Uh, we noticed that roster distribution that you just mentioned when we were just in our most recent pod going over just reviewing all the new faces. How much do you think that roster distribution will change between those ideal 6-5 to 6-8 guys, just bearing in mind that when you're building so much of your program the first year through their transfer portal, you're kind of improvising in that first year?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, we only had one player return and that was Harry Hornery, and so we had to go out and get at least 12 players. And so you're trying to do it the best way you can. That fits the way Coach Musselman feels we would be successful and who he wants to coach. But if you're going to take that many players, which we never want to do again you're, you know you're gonna, you're gonna try to just take the best players you can get, and sometimes you don't always, you know, fit them in perfectly. Hopefully it works out in certain ways. You, you try to do the best you can. But when you're trying to sign 12 guys, um, yeah, there's, there's some give and take and and you're trying to fit the profile that coach wants. But also, you know, we, all we you have to look at transfers and and look at do they have a skill or two that would transfer, you know, to the big 10? Um, couple of them that do would be shooting and rebounding. You know those things seem to carry um if you can rebound at a certain level.
Speaker 1:Um, we had an interesting deal. You know, two of the best guards um in our league last year in the sec were big west transfers, um, and so we, the guard from um uc riverside, uh, xylan polum, was at florida. He is one of the better guards in the league. And then, uh, the guard from davis, spent two years at vanderbilt and he was one of the best guards in our league. So it's kind of interesting. I mean mean the SEC is as athletic a league as you're going to find. Two of the best guards in our league were Big West transfers.
Speaker 2:Is there, you know, with the style of play in the Big Ten, you know with kind of the grinding physical reputation, is there maybe a little bit of a hope that you come in with a little bit more athletic group high-f and maybe that maybe you're providing a little bit of a shock in that regard?
Speaker 1:I think that that could be something that you know we would have. That coach always has had, and again, the athletic 6'6", 6'7", 6'8". He seems to really love coaching those guys and feels comfortable. He calls them sewer rats or junkyard dogs athletic guys that can defend, play multiple positions a little bit. I w, I know this.
Speaker 1:You know, in coaching, for as long as I've coached and and in coaching in the sec, uh, we obviously played big 10 teams. We beat Illinois in the NCAA tournament two years ago. We beat Purdue this past year in an exhibition game. Uh, we've played big 10 teams. Uh, you've, you just said it. You know it's more of maybe a more skilled league, bigger league, especially post players, not as athletic as the SEC, but is skilled and bigger.
Speaker 1:Maybe you said plotter, I mean that's you know there, when you think of the big 10, it's very physical, um, maybe not as fast or as athletic as the SEC. Uh, I would say the SEC is the most athletic league in the country. Um, you know, maybe the big 12 after that ACC, big 10. Yeah, skilled, uh, great coaches, just like every one of those leagues. Uh, the SEC had great coaches, um, but yeah, physical skill. It'll be interesting if our if coach and coach is great at this, you know he's going to do what he feels like will be our biggest advantage. And if he wants to recruit really athletic guys, it'll be interesting to see how that fits in with a very skilled big league.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when, when Coach Muss came aboard, there were a couple of videos that we posted just about his style of play and being a numbers guy, one thing that stood out to me was 200 passes per game and I just kind of build my whole basis of understanding of how this offense should look based on that. To me that speaks of that just would seem to really allow for a lot of these 6'5 to 6'8 guys that can really handle and are smart and efficient with the ball. And how much does that make? Maybe just a point guard, more of a luxury than an absolute need versus other systems that we see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, coach in the 200 passes is one of the staples of our program. When we go into halftime we put up the number of passes we have and obviously we talk about it after the game and then talk about it, you know, the next day and as we do our, you know cleanup of the previous game. So it's a big one. Um, he does take great pride in and this is unusual too, but he does take great pride in developing point guards that you wouldn't think. Well, he was not really a point guard, but he is 6'6 and he's 6, seven and you know, in our system, coach really likes guys that can play multiple positions. But it, you know, and I, this is different. I've been a head coach for 12 years and, and you know, I, you know a lot of head coaches will here's, you're the point guard, you're the two, you're the three, you're the four, you're the five. Coach likes guys that can play a lot of different spots. We talked today he was telling Matt Nolan, who played the four at Yale you might have to bring the ball up if we're getting pressured, so you're going to have to start running some point guard, you know, and he also will just put somebody. He can put somebody at point guard and develop them. I mean, and and he has a lot of confidence in doing that um, you know the, the martin twins played for him at nevada and their point guard got hurt and he slid uh, I think it was caleb martin into the point, said that you're gonna have to play the point. Well, he, he's never played point in his life. Well, they went to the sweet 16. He was a point guard. Um, you know he, he has an ability to, hey, you're, you're the, you're gonna play the point and we're gonna develop you.
Speaker 1:But he would, he would. I think he would rather have a 6'6", 6'7" guard out there that can really defend and be athletic and he would figure out the offense to run with him than have just a. You know now, unless somebody's a great point guard, he would always want to recruit a great point guard. Unless somebody's great point guard, he would always want to recruit a great point guard. But he feels comfortable with having somebody that size out there. And Anthony Black was just learning the position, but he was a 6'7", 6'8" point guard and he was the sixth pick in the NBA draft and you know, when he came in, because I was with him the whole time when he was freshman year. He wasn't a point guard. I mean, he he was an unselfish, great defender and really good athlete, but he was learning how to be a point guard and, uh, you know, that's what he, that's what he does.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, coach interesting, real quick that you mentioned. Uh, nolan, in that, in that role, my metrics really reward players that are smart with the ball and take good shots, and he is literally is about as efficient as as my metrics get.
Speaker 1:I find that fascinating.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Yeah, he makes. He makes a lot of, you know, shoots. A high percentage doesn't turn the ball, you know he's yeah, he's very good at that Great, you know, around the rim soft shots, little floaters, but yeah, and it's not like he's going to be a point guard. But, coach, will you know if something's happening he can run offense with having anybody bring the ball up the floor. So he's comfortable with that. He focuses more on competing and defense and rebounding.
Speaker 2:Coach, just a couple more, we'll get you out of here. I want to ask you about the freshmen coming in Isaiah Elohim and Jalen Shelley. What do you think of them? First, and then second, as far as you know, going forward in the future, you mentioned you didn't want to have 12 transfers coming in again. Uh, or, however, nine transfers, um, so, like what would be your desired ratio going forward? Uh, you know, would you, would you want to have a four-person high school class and then have sprinkle it with a couple transfers, or, you know, how do you, how do you?
Speaker 1:work that out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, obviously in this day and age with the portal, unfortunately, you know, everybody's a free agent. It seems like after each year, you know. But we want guys to stay in the program, we want them to be here. Isaiah Elohim is a freshman from Southern California that committed to us at Arkansas and kept his commitment because of the staff. You know his family's great and they wanted him to play for Coach Musselman and our staff. He is a big, strong, physical guard. His body, especially his lower body, looks like a 30 year old man. He is very quick laterally, very good on the ball, very strong he's. He's shooting it better than what we thought he could do, but right away, what's exciting about him is that he's physically capable of being in a game right now as a freshman and usually that's not the case. He's very smart, um, very professional in his approach. Um, he's got a chance to be a really good player and if we can get him. You know, freshmen all think that they need to score to play. Well, if you can defend, you'll play. That's just the way it works. I mean, if you can defend somebody, you're going to play and not turn the ball over. But most freshmen think they need to score. If he locks in defensively, he's going to be really special on that end of the floor and then the rest of it will develop.
Speaker 1:Jalen Shelley is 6'8", very skilled, shooting it way better than we even envisioned. He's got a great stroke. Lefty skilled, good passer, really good athlete. We we're really excited about both of them. We feel like you know we had we had Anthony Black six pick in the draft, we had Nick Smith, 27th pick, and Jordan Walsh was a second round pick. He's going to win an NBA championship this year with the Celtics. Um, we feel like those guys um are as good right now as those guys were Now. The difference is Anthony Black really worked and so if those guys do what their work ethic and get after it, we're really excited about both those freshmen there's some the classes that are coming up in Southern California in 25, 26 are really really good, We've been talking about them.
Speaker 2:uh, that those classes for a while now here on the podcast.
Speaker 1:And former players. You know, like coach must is, you know, coach those, their dads in the NBA, you know. So, um, you know we, we need to re. We need at USC we need to recruit freshmen, good freshmen, you know, top, top 10, top 20, top 30 type players in the country. We need to get those players to stay home and so, you know, when you have we've got to take advantage of having really good players in Southern California, especially next two years, and we want to recruit freshmen when I keep them in the program.
Speaker 1:So I don't know if I can give you a ratio. To answer your question, we definitely want to recruit. There may be more freshmen next year because of how good the class is, you know in 25, you know it might be. Just we need to sign. You know the best players we can get and we need some of the guys obviously to return. We do have seven grad transfers this year, so we know that those spots are going to open. So you know we I couldn't give you a ratio, but we definitely want to recruit freshmen and we definitely want to recruit players and student athletes. They'll succeed academically at USC. This is not a easy school. The degree means a lot means a lot, and so we want them to be here, we want them to stay in Southern California. So we're going to recruit those next two classes and get as many great freshmen as we can get.
Speaker 2:The SID, dave Tuttle, told me that Coach Musselman wanted to encourage the assistants to get out and talk to local media, local community, and that's, you know, one of the reasons why we got you on the podcast. We were excited about that. There's lots of people listening who are really excited about this new era of USC basketball. What, what can you tell them just right off the bat what they can expect to see coming out to Galen and what you think what kind of year you know they can expect from this team?
Speaker 1:Well, the one thing is, as I've said, you know, coach has taken over two programs in Nevada and Arkansas, and a year after he gets there they're selling the place out.
Speaker 1:And the reason why is because the intensity that he brings to everything he does in the game I mean he's highly intense on the sidelines he lives and dies with each possession. He gets our guys to play at a high, high level of intensity and I think fans really enjoy that Competition intensity, playing for each other, putting team first, and he has a high, high level of expectation. You know, coming from Nevada going to Arkansas winning games in the NCAA tournament, nevada, winning games in the NCAA tournament, getting to two Elite Eights at Arkansas, that's his expectation here and that's what we want our fans to expect. We want them to expect us to go to the NCAA tournament every year, to win games in the NCAA tournament every year, to get to Elite Eights, get to a Final Four. That's his, that's his vision. And I think when you, when they come out to Galen that's that's why he came to USC and that's what he wants to do here and I think they'll feel that when they see our team play and when they see coach, coach.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think no one will be surprised at the team does well in the tournament or goes far in the tournament. I think getting Galen filled will be probably one of those accomplishments that that will go down as one of the greater accomplishments in USC basketball history if that can be done. So we wish you luck in that endeavor. There's always all kinds of ideas. There have been ideas about how to do that for years and we really look forward to you guys implementing a lot of that and doing it.
Speaker 1:Coach Musk, going back to his CBA days and everything. He is a master marketer. He wants to hear. We had an all-staff meeting the other day and he wants to hear from everybody, from marketing. Whatever we need to do, he's going to do it. That's just what he's about. He's not about just coaching basketball. He wants to fill that arena and so he's told everybody from our marketing department uh, sports information to every, you know every, every department. You tell us what you want us to do, we'll do it. We're also and this is what he's good at he he said this is going to be a change. He said there, we we're going to have ideas of our own and we're going to promote them and we're going to do them, and so this is going to be and we're going to expect you to hop on board with us, because this is we. We've done it at two different places. I mean, you have to think about it. Arkansas we sold that arena out three years in a row. The tickets were sold in June sold out three years in a row.
Speaker 2:They didn't even know our schedule.
Speaker 1:We did the same thing at Nevada and so he's got ideas on how to do it and how to get the fans involved and we've told people on campus and obviously this is what Jen Cohen wants. She wants that arena filled. Women's basketball has done it. Obviously, juju has brought a lot to that. But Coach wants that's his vision, that's what he. I don't think he even can even fathom anything else.
Speaker 2:Well, that is music to USC fans ears. Coach Todd Lee, usc Trojans. Thank you for coming on the dunk city podcast. Really appreciate you sharing all your thoughts on USC and your background story. We really look forward to seeing you in action this coming academic year.
Speaker 1:Really appreciate it. Guys, Thanks for having me on. Look forward to meeting both of you and we'll get it rolling. Sounds great.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much All right, I don't know about you, Mark, but that was really a fun interview. I'm pretty fired up about the coming season. Sounds to me like this is a staff that really loves college basketball, is really into it and really gets it.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I had not known of Mr Lee before the interview today and my God, if that didn't get you just ready for the season to start today. Seek therapy.
Speaker 2:Get your head examined.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, thanks everyone for listening. Um, be sure to tune in. Uh, we should be having some more episodes. Uh, as the summer goes along, once um events transpire and we uh start talking to some of the new people on staff, maybe we'll get a player in here at some point. Uh, you should check out all the discussion for USC basketball over at uscbasketballcom Still the only website in the world solely dedicated to USC basketball. There are other sites out there that talk about USC basketball, but they also talk about other sports as well, but that's not us. We are uscbasketballcom and this is the Dunk City Podcast, and we appreciate you listening, Mark.
Speaker 3:As always, everyone five months to tip off and fight on Stockholders.
