Speaker 1: 0:23

Welcome to the Dunk City Podcast.

Speaker 2: 0:27

Hey everybody and welcome back to another episode of the Dunk City Podcast. We are one day away from the first day of October, which means that the first USC basketball game of the season is coming up very soon. Full-time practices are underway. We're going to start revving up our content covering fall practice, talking to some more coaches and staffers and players, but first we have some housekeeping from over the summer and it's glorious housekeeping indeed because we talked to USC Trojan basketball great, sam Clancy, back in August and we took a nice walk down memory lane, got some updates on what he's been up to.

Speaker 2: 1:01

So if you're a longtime Trojan basketball fan and still remember that Elite Eight team from 2001, this is an interview you won't want to miss. All right, we're here with Sam Clancy, one of the great USC basketball players in history. Sam is the third all-time leading scorer in USC basketball history. He was the all-time leading shot blocker. He's now second to Taj Gibson. He was a second team All-American in 2002 and the Pac-12, the Pac-10 Player of the Year. Sam Clancy, welcome to the Dunk City Podcast.

Speaker 1: 1:31

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2: 1:32

So, sam, it's been a while since. I think a lot of SC fans have caught up with you. What are you up to now and what are you working on?

Speaker 1: 1:41

Right now I'm working with the cleveland cavaliers organization um. Last year was my first year coaching with their uh, the cleveland charge, their g league affiliate. Uh, you know I retired from playing 18 years um overseas and everything in covid 2020, so took time off and got into coaching last year. I really loved it and everything. So this year I'm back with the team and everything for the second year, so I'm really enjoying it. So getting my start in coaching.

Speaker 2: 2:15

How do you like being back in your home state? Is that pretty cool?

Speaker 1: 2:20

It is, it is, it is. It's kind of like full circle. I get to come back where know I'm back where everything started. You know, with the high school here I have a lot of friends here, a lot of family and everything. So you know, to be able to have an opportunity to come back here at home to cleveland and work with the calves is, you know, it's great organization, you know it's really a blessing and everything. So I'm just happy, just happy, and everything worked out like that so how do you like coaching and who's a coaching style?

Speaker 2: 2:47

Do you think you've, you know, picked up the most from?

Speaker 1: 2:52

uh, I love coaching. I love like just giving back my knowledge, um, to the young kids and everything, and this is being able to help them and just be able to help them reach their goals, and just you know their dreams. Help them and just be able to help them reach their goals, and just you know their dreams, because so many people helped me along the way and I had so many coaches that were instrumental in my career to help me get to to where I you know to what, to where I was when I became as a player, and also as a man too. So I just want to help these kids out the best that I can and, um, as far as coaching styles, um, it's different nowadays than when I grew up. You can't really get on these guys like that as much, but I'm definitely a players coach. You know, I'm definitely a players coach.

Speaker 2: 3:34

No, henry, bibby styles.

Speaker 1: 3:38

I mean, Bibby was a players coach. He was a players coach. It just depends on like you know you had to be on which player you know and everything. But no, he was a players coach. It just depends on like you know, you had to be on which player you know and everything. Um, but no, he was. He was a players coach. But but no, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta kind of ease back some of those things that you know that those tactics that worked 20 years ago not gonna work now right.

Speaker 2: 3:59

Well, you know maybe some of those things that he did back then, now that you're older, do you are you? Are you? Do you appreciate them more? Or do you understand more what he was trying to get at?

Speaker 1: 4:10

I mean he definitely prepared, prepared us for just life after college, you know, and also, I think, life after basketball, you know, because a lot of lessons that he taught us were like life lessons, not necessarily basketball lessons. So I definitely understand, even talking with a lot of the guys back later, you know, bluthenthal or Granville or Trapania, we would talk about some of the things that Debbie would tell us in college that actually happened later in our professional careers and everything. So it was so. It was funny, you know. We thought he was lying this whole time. You know it was funny, yeah what?

Speaker 2: 4:50

what was um? What was it that drew you to usc from all the way from from ohio?

Speaker 1: 4:56

it was a few things, honestly. Uh, one was coach bibby. You know, um, he was a new coach at the time and he wasn't the college coach and you know, and he, uh, you know, I just like the way that he sold the program to, to me and my mom and my family and everything. So, uh, he never promised me anything, just told me if I came in and I worked hard, then I have opportunity to play and everything worked out well. But also, you know, southern California was appealing to me. Honestly, if I wanted to keep it real, 100%, I was tired of the cold Cleveland winters, the blizzards that we used to have back in the days, so I was like I could do for a change of scenery. But everything worked out. It did it definitely worked out. Um, it did, it did definitely work. I took a little flack, you know, from over here, from going way out of there and everything but uh, but everything worked out in the long run where were you gonna go if it wasn't usc?

Speaker 1: 5:57

I probably would win cincinnati with. With huggins we went down cincinnati or maybe NC State I would have went there. I always wanted to go to Michigan but at the time Steve Fisher, he had left and actually went out to San Diego State. So when USC came along and they really recruited me hard so they really showed that they wanted me interest and everything, I was like, okay, I can see myself, I can see myself being here. But for me it was more along the lines of like where I wanted to be. I figured it was all basketball at the end of the day.

Speaker 2: 6:38

I'm like how much different, is it you?

Speaker 1: 6:40

know, that's what I was thinking at the time at least.

Speaker 2: 6:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, uh, mark mark's gonna get into some, some deep cuts uh on your career right now, so I'll turn it over to him all right, yeah, as you said, you went to high school back east in ohio.

Speaker 3: 6:54

Um, the rest of your class scalab, scalabrini, bluthenthal, uh, granville and the overlooked wilder, um, they're're all back out from here out west. How familiar were you with them at all when you committed to USC?

Speaker 1: 7:10

I didn't know anybody. I didn't know anyone. Wow, but I don't think at that time I don't think you knew anyone. Like, oh, I guess if you're from the area you kind of grow up with the people, but so it wasn't like no, I didn't know anyone. I didn't even know anyone from the West Coast. I had never even been to California before coming on my visit to my first official visit to USC and everything. So no, I didn't know anything. I signed with USC and then I played in an all-star game out there and then I was like Richard Jefferson and Dave Blutenthal and it was like a bunch of West Coast guys. I played in one of those. That was the first time I ever got to meet them. Besides coming on my, I didn't even get to meet them on my visit because, no, it was different. I just met the players. So yeah, so I didn't know any of them. I didn't know any of them. I didn't know any of them until we got there.

Speaker 3: 8:05

Oh God, how concerned were you that you would be a fit, just personality-wise, playing style-wise any of that.

Speaker 1: 8:11

No, that didn't concern me, because at that point I'd like you understand. I grew up in AAU culture, so you're always on a different team, you're always with different players, you're always in a different environment. It's like you. You just, you're just really worried about going there and just getting playing time, you know, that's all, that's all you're worried about at that time. We just all want to play, you know. So everything else was late, you know. And then you're figuring like I never had any problems with no teammates and all that stuff. At that time everyone's I mean, I get, I think now still, everyone was pretty cool and everything. We were all just trying to like, really, we're all new, we're all the class we were, we were, we were like a top five recruiting class too, if I don't probably call right at that time. Yeah, you know, um, so we all came in the same time and, luckily, like if we all gelled and we were all friends off the court, as you know. So it went, it went a long way as a fan you could.

Speaker 3: 9:05

We could tell right away, like your freshman class, your freshman year, it. You know, I could see some pieces of the personality. But the second season you could just tell like your class's personality had the imprint. But before we get to your sophomore season, in your freshman season the team started nine and one nice start, um, and with the this incoming recruiting class, I was really optimistic. Um, not too much later after that the team went on a six game losing streak. That had to be difficult. Like as a fan, my, my hopes were kind of shot. Um, as a freshman, that had to be really, really tough. Were there any teammates that helped to pick you up through that? Or were you one of those guys that was picking up others?

Speaker 1: 9:50

As a freshman. It was probably the most difficult year of, I think, any player's career, because you're coming from high school and then to college and everything is just completely different as far as the training, everything, school to school. So the whole year you're really just trying to like find your bearings and like get a routine and get a rhythm and stuff right, you know so, uh, and my playing time was sparingly throughout that. So it was frustrating because for one, you're not winning and then for two, not playing as often as I want, you know, because you're inconsistent as a freshman and everything. So it was a frustrating time.

Speaker 1: 10:31

My freshman year. It was a fracture on the team. I'm not going to say a fracture, but it was more like a. Yeah, it was a split. It was the upperclassmen against the lower, you know the lower classmen. So it was us again and it was all seniors. So you against the lower, you know the lower class. So it was us again and it was all seniors. So you know they had their own things going on from the previous whatever. So they were all fighting for, you know, playing time for points, whatever, whatever, whatever. We were just coming and trying to build something, trying to win and make our own little name, or. But you know, so it was different. So once those guys graduated, we were all on the same and that's how we kind of grew together. Everyone was on the same page, as opposed to this guy thinking this guy, this guy thinking this thing. That was when I first came in. That's how it was.

Speaker 3: 11:15

Yeah, was there anybody that you just grew closer to in that time period when it was rough within your own class?

Speaker 1: 11:24

I was close with, pretty know, I was a guy I was close with, I was pretty close to pretty much the whole team. Uh, I was close with uh blutenthal. We were pretty close, a lot as close with granville. You know, uh, granville, he was probably, he was, he was the grounded one. He keeps, you know, uh, everything level-headed. You know he's the point guard and stuff. So he was uh, you know, but at the time I think that we were just, we were young, but also we were just, I don't even know, it wasn't like we were just playing, so we weren't, we were like all right, that's them. All right, when we get in here, when we get to play, we're going to be like this, you know, like you know. So you know you're going to be too frustrated when you're not playing. That's what I was basically going to say, you know.

Speaker 3: 12:05

Yeah, and still in that season you all beat number six Stanford at Stanford, which I distinctly remember. That game wasn't on TV, so I was frustrated way back when. It's kind of weird to say now Did something change in the team? Did you see that coming, or was it as much a surprise to you?

Speaker 1: 12:27

as it was to we fans. No, I think that's what happens is like like the top and bottom teams are really close, you know, and and anybody can beat anybody on a given given night, you know. And our problem was just, we were just inconsistent, you know, we just couldn't put it together like every night, and that's the difference in like a good team or a bad team is like coming out and do it every night so we could show spurts of it, and that's what we did in the stanford game. We won that crazy oregon game, you know, like we could put it together when everybody came on the same page, but that was just like. You know, it wasn't that often so it so it didn't surprise us, you know, because, you know, as a player, bibby always had us ready. He always had us feeling like we could win every game, you know. So we always felt like we had a shot and everything. We could just put it together, get everyone on the same page.

Speaker 2: 13:20

Sam, you really made a big jump from your freshman to sophomore year. You came out as a sophomore I mean as a freshman. You didn't really show a lot of the things that you showed in your latter part of your career at USC. Was it just a matter of feeling comfortable, or were there things that you did specifically that really made you a better player by the time sophomore year came around?

Speaker 1: 13:49

better player, uh, by the time sophomore year came around, uh, I think the biggest thing is just like, uh, confidence. I think the biggest thing in basketball is like it's confidence, like once you believe that you are the best or better than these people and and you put the work in on top of that, you know that's why you have this belief. It's not like a false belief, you know, irrational confidence, you know so. And then once I I remember I, you know I was inconsistent, I had the spurts got hurt my sophomore year, then my, you know, and then I had spurts but I just wasn't consistent. But once I was like and bibby would always challenge me. And I was like and Bibby would always challenge me and I'll never forget he would always challenge me and always he would be like Sam, you're not doing nothing out here, and I would look and I'd be like man. I got like 18 and 7.

Speaker 3: 14:36

He'd be like, yeah, but you should have like 30 and 15.

Speaker 1: 14:38

And I'm like come on man.

Speaker 3: 14:40

What does this guy want?

Speaker 1: 14:41

You know what I'm saying. But then later in my career I started to get these numbers so I didn't understand it. He always pushed more. He saw more in everything, so he knew how to push me at the most out of me. I think it was just one him having the confidence in me to give me the keys, being like we're going to get this kid the ball and you do whatever you want. And he left, he allowed me to play my game. He didn't, he didn't hold me back and everything, and you know, and he pushed me, the team also believing in me, knowing that like, okay, I'm the number one option and then not having like other ulterior motives, like they want to get, can't no one stop me and I'm, if I did it this game, I can do it every game. If I just constantly like okay, now I'm no, like you know, I'm consistently putting it together and everything. So I think the biggest, the biggest jump is just was confidence, confidence, wise, to know that I can do it you had kind of an interesting shot.

Speaker 2: 15:48

The way the ball came up your off your hands, I remember, uh, it seemed to kind of it's like you were almost spinning it a little bit, or maybe there's a little top spin. I can't remember quite exactly what it was. Was that something that they tried to work on with you?

Speaker 1: 16:02

Well, I actually fixed that when I got to Philly, I fixed it. So, yeah, they just fixed it and everything. They just fixed that when I got to Philly. So they just fixed it and everything. You know, they just fixed it when I got to Philly. So they're rotating better and everything, larry Brown so I got to thank Larry Brown for fixing that.

Speaker 1: 16:17

You know, back in my time, man, it was like you either had a talent you put in the work, nothing against like the coaching, it was just more or less about the team. It wasn't about me individually. So it's not like they're not out there trying to develop sam clancy as a player. I gotta develop on my own. If I don't, then that's on me. They're gonna recruit someone who is developed. You know that's how the business is. So you know the business now is developing the players. So we gotta develop them once we get them, you know. So it's different. College is different. They're not developing you.

Speaker 1: 16:49

So I had to go in the summers and you asked me how I got better. I had to go home and work in the summers and then come back to USC a different player. Then they'd be like oh Sam, you were working in the summer. Okay, now we can give you more. Okay, now we can give you the ball, now we can do it. It wasn't like I did all that there. I had to get. They got the confidence. Then, okay, it built it and okay, of course, I got better being being at school and stuff and everything. But a lot of the work was put in over the summer and everything. But you know that's. That's kind of how college works.

Speaker 2: 17:20

It's like if you either have it, you gotta get it, gotta get it on your own yeah, I feel like you would have been better suited for, for this era, basketball kind of more positionless uh, you probably would have. You know, I thought you had a nice face-up jumper from what like 15 feet in pretty much. But I think that if you'd played in this era, you probably would have developed that three and you would have been able to defend, you know, two through five or something. You know, yeah, do you ever think about that? I?

Speaker 1: 17:48

do, I do and I mess with the guys now that I'm coaching and stuff and in this era, uh, you know, um it, I would be suited more for this era, um, because my area was about size, you know, and as opposed to like, not necessarily skill, you know, now it's more about skill as opposed to size. So if you got the skill, you know, they'll play all six, seven guys if you're, if they're all skilled, you know, as opposed, then, like they gotta, they needed a 710 guy who can just be 710 or 610, you know you know right, eric musselman would.

Speaker 2: 18:25

Eric musselman would have loved you on this team because because a lot of the guys are kind of similar to your style as far as just being you 6'5 and 6'8 and able to defend and do all the different things.

Speaker 1: 18:38

And be versatile, just a basketball player and not really worry about. Oh, what is he at three? Is he at four? Is he at five? No, he's just out there producing and winning games for you. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3: 18:48

Right and yet, as we said, the number three all time score at the school still. So I think things turned out just fine for you. We, we, we love you. Man. To your sophomore season. Like you said, you know, you could just see as a fan, the, the team took on the personality of your class and Trapanier. Basically it just it, just right out of the gate. I could just the imprint of, of that group. You know, the first big moment to me as a fan in that season was y'all broke a 10 game losing streak. 10 game losing streak to ucla at the sports arena. Um 10 games was a lot to deal with as a fan. The entire second half I was just. I had my eyes half on the clock and half on you all just thinking please, please, you know, let us just win this one. Were you all concerned about that or were you just thinking like we can bust these guys up all night? They're not catching us.

Speaker 1: 19:48

When you're in a game it's like you're in the battle, so you don't really think about all the other stuff, you don't think about the fans, you don't really think about the rivalry and all that stuff. That stuff comes afterwards or before, but when you're in a game you're just playing and trying to win the game. So basically, we're just trying to execute the game plan and just not screw it up. I mean, I got so many heartbreaks For me. I'm sorry, but I remember the losses more than I remember the wins. The wins. I don't get as much joy from the wins as pain as I get from the losses. So I remember those buzzer beaters that we lost. Those are the ones that hurt me, right? But you know those. Those are great battles. Those are great battles. Those are great battles that we were both in, you know, and and we're both two great teams at the time and we're both like equally matched.

Speaker 3: 20:44

So you know, I just hope we got gave the fans what they wanted yeah, I think coaching is definitely in your future, because it seems like the really good coaches say that the joy from a win does not compare at all to the agony of a loss. Seems like you're definitely going out for that. So we I'm going to use we collectively here, since I just I live this season so much. We beat UCLA Awesome win, everybody's happy. The next game was an overtime win against Arizona State and you broke a bone in your foot and Jarvis Turner also fractured his ankle in that same game. That might have been like the toughest. That was probably the toughest game I've ever had to deal with in person. That was just such a shot to me. Then, just three no, two days later, we actually beat Arizona. We collectively beat number two Arizona and you would appreciate this.

Speaker 3: 21:43

In what some of us fans call the Abdullah El-Maghbari game. He actually held his own against Michael Wright in unexpected minutes. I did not see that coming. You look back at these 11 days. You beat UCLA on a Wednesday. You're out for almost a season About a week later. Then, two days later, you have this huge win at Arizona State, just up down, but you have to watch it from the bench. What comes to mind when you think about this crazy rollercoaster of just 11 days. I'm sure you remember that very vividly right.

Speaker 1: 22:18

I do remember that. I do remember that it was a crazy time. I remember breaking my foot. I thought I turned my ankle, I thought I sprained my ankle. First of all, we started out you forgot I think we started out 5-0 in the pack when we beat Arizona. We were 5-0. So we were 5-0. So we were on a roll, so we were 4-0.

Speaker 1: 22:40

When I got hurt Me and Jarvis got hurt in the same game I thought I rolled my ankle and I went in the back and couldn't run and then like fifth of my torso was broken. It was the first time I ever broke my body. So I remember crying and everything, calling my family back home and just you know, just being emotional that I couldn't, just you know I couldn't play and do what I love to do. But the next game, so they rallied the team, you know they rallied behind me and Jarvis being hurt and they really balled out against Arizona. I do remember that game because we stormed the fans stormed the floor afterwards and I remember being in the middle with my crutches stuck in a sea of people and everything and my crutches on.

Speaker 1: 23:23

I do remember that that was a great time.

Speaker 2: 23:25

That ASU game was when Bluthenthal had 28 rebounds too.

Speaker 1: 23:29

That's right, he did. He did have 28 rebounds he did. That was his 28 rebound game. That was a great game. And the thing about that is we had pieces. So it wasn't just one guy like, yeah, I might get a lot of the publicity, but it wasn't just like me, it was like a team effort and everything. And even Abdullah, like you said, he's a walk-on. You know, right, we're still friends on Facebook and you know we keep in contact and everything. So it was great to see the walk-ons who practice with us every day so they'll finally be able to get their time and their moment and stuff right. So it was great.

Speaker 2: 24:04

He was a strong dude too, he was built.

Speaker 1: 24:06

He was, he was and he came from like a family of all big guys strong, muscle and everything. He's a great guy. He's a great guy.

Speaker 3: 24:20

I think that ASU game I think Eddie House was coming off a 60-game performance not too long before that Against Cal. I think he was against Cal or something. Yeah, yeah, that was. Would Trapania have been on in that game?

Speaker 1: 24:30

Because I think that was the first, yeah, jeff. So Jeff was the. He guarded them really well because Jeff was a heck of a defensive player, so he was like our defensive stopper, so he was in charge of, like, harassing any house and chasing them off screens and you know he did a good job of it.

Speaker 3: 24:46

I think that was the game where I kind of just got hip to you Trepania's, like a real good defender here um oh yeah, like that man.

Speaker 2: 24:54

He had a. He had a stretch where he uh hit a three, came down, uh blocked a shot, uh hit a three. I think it was like toward the end of that game and that it was. It was just a. You guys were down six I think, and then he just, he just took the game in his own hands and won the game. It was pretty remarkable.

Speaker 3: 25:13

Yeah, yeah, all right. So the next season, the junior season, we fans had high expectations of the team. We know that we're not for the injuries. Things would have been very, very different your sophomore season. In early December, we had that bizarre Jeff Trapania suspension Speaking of Trapania. How did how did the? We had that bizarre Jeff Trapagna suspension speaking of Trapagna. How did how did the team learn about that and what was the? What was the reaction of the team?

Speaker 2: 25:38

Malika Edmondson.

Speaker 1: 25:40

Man. So I don't know how exactly we learn about it, but, uh, it was just a crazy situation because, for one, jeff has been dating malika, who's a track star at usc2, since they were freshmen, so they've already been, you know, together like about to get married any, you know, it was about to get married anyway. So and then I think he had to get married to play. So we were just basically making fun of him, making jokes about the situation the whole time. I mean, you know, we didn't know what was going on. And then the NCAA I don't know how they even make their rulings or whatever they do, but it was just nonsense.

Speaker 1: 26:26

But luckily we had Des, I think Desmond came in and I don't know if you remember he came in and stepped in for for Jeff and his absence and everything. So you know it was basically next man up, that's how it is. Like, oh, next man up. You know that's what baby would always preach. Like hey, next man up, he's down, all right, now you, you get in there, your turn, you know. So you know you can't really like, like, think about it too much. He's got, you can't really think about it too much you just got to keep going.

Speaker 3: 26:53

I remember reading in his first game back I don't remember who was against, but the other team was giving him some crap about hey, what was my wedding invitation and all this stuff. It sounds like you were kind of giving him some of that already ahead of that.

Speaker 1: 27:06

I think it was Stanford, because Stanford always would have the. This is like the early days in the internet and before social media. So you know they would always like know about your, like life and stuff.

Speaker 2: 27:20

They were chatting your GPA at some point.

Speaker 1: 27:22

Yeah, exactly yeah, they were chatting my GPA and cow and messing with me and all types of stuff, all types of stuff. So they would always know all these like things about you and everything but that. This attitude, like the you know the rivalry heightened, made, made the game more more intense, you know, made it more fun yeah he's speaking to which.

Speaker 3: 27:44

Is there one fan base where you're just like this is too much? These are just like horrible human beings, not just like good fans that they were just like way too much no, I never think that of the fans.

Speaker 1: 27:56

I just think that they have their, because fans are their team and they gotta, they gotta do whatever they gotta do to get under your skin. That's like their job, you know, like I? I I played in europe where, like these, american fans like it's like.

Speaker 1: 28:09

It's like I mean, come on, little babies and stuff. There's people over there throwing. You know they would. In turkey, for example, they would light coins on fire and like throw them to you and stuff. And you have to have a shield over over top of you because they're throwing stuff. For you know, you see, in greece they like flares or people spitting on you or just crazy stuff, you know, or so you know you get over here. You're like, uh, like what are you? What are you going to do? You know so yeah yeah, all right.

Speaker 3: 28:34

Sam Clancy breaking news that he is a way better human being than I am, because I've got some issues with some of the other fan bases. I'll just say that.

Speaker 1: 28:41

All right. No, I always enjoyed playing on the road better than playing at home, because I like the hostile environment. So I needed that energy, that energy against me. A lot of the times, you know I would.

Speaker 3: 28:55

I just go ahead, go ahead, Chris.

Speaker 2: 28:57

So I was going to say some of those sports arena crowds weren't the best for, for, for the for, like the teams that weren't marquee, but man, sometimes those. I think that arena got pretty damn loud at times when it really wanted to be.

Speaker 1: 29:11

It did once. We know LA, they're all frontrunners and everything. Once we got good, then we packed it and there was no problem. They wanted to see a good team. I don't blame them, because I would be the same. I wanted to see a good team. They came out and we got good. They supported the heck out of us and everything they still support to this day.

Speaker 3: 29:36

So I appreciate all that. So back to your junior season. There was a really weird road trip where the team lost at Oregon State and then won at Oregon. There's an internet rumor that at halftime of that Oregon State game, some players came up and designed their own defense. There's an internet rumor that at halftime of that Oregon State game, some players came up and designed their own defense and that's when the season turned Scale of 1 to 10, how accurate is this internet rumor?

Speaker 1: 30:05

Oh man, this is new for me. I didn't know about this rumor.

Speaker 2: 30:07

All right, it must not be real. I didn't know about this rumor.

Speaker 1: 30:11

I didn't know about this rumor, but it's not completely like off basis, wow. But what they mean is like we were struggling. We were struggling at that time in our you know that point in our season. We started off well. Then there was a stretch, we were struggling and I was struggling, bad you know, and I didn't really pick it up to like the last game, maybe until the maybe washington state I think, we played. We beat them, but we were struggling.

Speaker 1: 30:41

What it was is we just couldn't figure out how we put, we implemented a new defense I think it was our one, two, two and we just couldn't figure it out like how to get it working or whatever you know it, just we couldn't figure it out. So, like it was scalabrini, I, I I recall being scalabrini. I think someone else said it was someone else. Everyone has some. You know who it was, but I think it was scalabrini and he just came to the idea like all right, we're in our zone, but we just guard, just make sure you're guarding someone in your area, right, this is just that simple. And then it clicks everyone's like all right, if you're guarding someone in your area, right, this is that simple. And then it clicks. Everyone's like all right, if you're a Harrier, you just got to be accountable for some man.

Speaker 1: 31:15

So we kind of figured it out like on our own, you know, and we were already playing together for three years so we knew each other, and then we're athletic so we can cover for each other, me and Jeff, you know, flying around and stuff. So it worked. It actually worked and it was throwing teams off and it was like the defense that we end up using in a tournament to mess people up. But it was like I don't know if it was designed at halftime in that game, maybe I don't know, I don't know, but it was like. It was like all right, let's just do this. All right, let's just keep it simple. Let's just keep it simple. Sometimes basketball can be too crazy. Let's just keep it simple and just make sure you're guarding someone. So maybe it did kind of happen.

Speaker 2: 31:57

And maybe the underrated aspect of the team improving on defense was Jeff coming back later in the season, right, because he wasn't really. He was pretty rusty on offense, so I think he just pretty much, by the time he got his legs back, it was a tournament. And then I actually remember going to those games. You know I helped staff some of those games and I remember being in the bathroom, you know, using the facilities and the Boston College fans or whoever it was, you know just shaking their head and saying who was that guy? This guy Japondi, because he was just unbelievable, flying, like you said, just flying around. And of course you know you were right there too.

Speaker 1: 32:36

I mean it was amazing. I mean just that whole tournament run was just incredible. Like everybody was just on the same page clicking at the same time. You know, and like, even when I watch these magical runs now on like you know, march Madness, I understand because we've been there I'm like, oh yeah, this guy, he couldn't make a shot all year. Now he's making everything out here. We're throwing behind the back alley-oop passes and stuff, and you know, and I'm like you know, so it was a good time.

Speaker 3: 33:09

Yeah, before the tournament run there was actually it was right after that Oregon trip there was a homestand against the Northern California schools and the second half of that was against number one Stanford. I think that was probably the best opponent that I remember in your career. They had Jacobson and Mendez and I remember they played a zone that they extended, and it was just. I remember in your career they had Jacobson and Mendez and I remember they played a zone that they extended and it was. It was just I don't know. I remember just thinking how are we going to get a shot off here? This is smothering.

Speaker 3: 33:35

And yet, you know, I think we closed a gap late in the game. We came up just short. We had a chance to tie or maybe win at the end of regulation. Just, I think we just didn't get a shot off. And I remember reading oh USC, they just can't win the big one. That got me personally as a fan mad because I'd seen a lot of wins. Did you all kind of get that news or that kind of vibe from the local press or do you not really feel that? Not that I'm a player, but that motivated me as a fan I was mad.

Speaker 1: 34:07

Did you guys get any of that um, what I, what I know as a player, I did a. I did a. I don't know, I'm not saying we did a good job, but it was. It wasn't like a didn't really concern me with the. The other people didn't say wasn't in a locker room. You know, I'm Like what are the fans? No, no disrespect, but like, most of them didn't even play freshmen on their freshman basketball team and they're talking basketball Like. So, like I can't. You know what I'm saying, so I can only listen to so much that you know what I'm saying, which is zero for me. You know, like they can talk about that amongst other non-basketball freshman players, but for me I can't listen to that.

Speaker 1: 34:52

We're over here trying to. You know we're trying to accomplish something over here, right, you know, sam, so we got goals. You, you work, you practice all week. Sometimes it doesn't work out like that, like everything in life, but you gotta keep practicing. So that's just like what it was. The season is good because, like, basketball is the ultimate thing you can see, like improvement you can see from the game. You know sports is just. You know it's great because you're gonna. You can see that. So we were just focused on like, just trying to be the best team that we could be and it's not having social media help. I don't know how they do it now. I don't know if it's possible.

Speaker 1: 35:18

I don't know if it's possible to avoid it now yeah but back then we didn't, um, you know, because I wasn't reading newspapers and stuff like that, we were just playing.

Speaker 2: 35:28

Yeah, that tournament run, you beat Oklahoma State who they'd had an airline accident and some of their, I think a couple of their staff people, their staff and coaches had died before, so they were kind of a sentimental favorite and you guys pasted them, pasted them pretty hard. And then BC was the Big East champ and they had Troy Bell and you guys, I think, pulled out to a massive. I think you guys were up by 20 or 25 at one point and then kind of just held on the Robert Hutchinson game, so to speak, free throws, yeah, yeah. And then going back to what you said earlier about things, the games you lost versus the games you won, you remember the losses? Uh, was that duke game one of one of those games?

Speaker 1: 36:15

I mean, it has to be right yeah, yeah, that was one, that was one. But with those games we're just like you're just, you, we have nothing to lose because we're the ultimate underdog and we're already Cinderella. So you're just, you've got nothing to lose, we can just play free. You know, those ones don't hurt me as much as maybe is that tournament game, wilmington. That's the one that hurts, right? Oh yeah, the favorite, right? You know that hurts. We can get into that later, but those ones hurt the duke. One was just more like and for me that was like my, my coming out. Yeah, so to speak the country.

Speaker 1: 36:52

The country knew about you after that yeah, that's what put me on the map. So, and I, I would look at those games like, and I would always be like, oh wait, this guy you said he's better than me, okay, I want to play against him to really see, like, to measure myself, to measure my own skills. So that's how looked at, like you know, taking these challenges and accepting these challenges. And we we had already played Duke and the John Wooden classic. You know, I think it was before, you know, yeah, so we had already played them. So we were already like, ah, you know, they, they, you know, if we can get a few calls or or, you know, I mean we'd be all right.

Speaker 2: 37:24

Oh, the calls were pretty bad that whole tournament.

Speaker 1: 37:28

Duke got all the calls and then afterwards you're like oh, I see why they win all these games. Now I understand why, you know. Okay, now I have a greater pitch. I understand why it's very difficult to beat, you know so.

Speaker 2: 37:45

You more than held your own against Carlos Boozer for sure in that game I thought, and were probably the reason why I think that was the closest any team came to beating Duke that year in that run. I didn't know that yeah. Ten-point loss, I believe.

Speaker 3: 37:57

Yeah, it was the closest game of the tournament for them. I know that for sure.

Speaker 1: 38:00

Yeah, it's good. I haven't seen some of these guys to this day and we still talk about this game and stuff you guys are all pretty close that Elite Eight squad. I'm talking about even some of the Duke guys, chris Carwell, we'll talk about our battles and stuff. Some of these guys and stuff.

Speaker 2: 38:19

That was the Duhon game. I feel like you guys were spending all this energy stopping, stopping Jay Williams and and, and Battier and Boozer, and the big shooter, the big, the big son of the coach shooter, his name Dunleavy, I can't remember, yeah, dunleavy. And then and then do, and then Duhon came around and just hit all those open. Someone had to be open, so he just hit those open shots.

Speaker 1: 38:53

Well, bibby's thing was I'll throw Bibby under the bus. He threw me under the bus and here I am. That's my guy. That's my guy. That's my guy.

Speaker 1: 39:07

So Jason Williams williams is uh, he's the all-american, so we're worried about him. Right, he's, he's the fire. Right, we got to put out his fire. You know, first, bibby, he didn't give any respects to any freshman at the time. It didn't matter. If you can recall, we played in maui class classic against north carolina and they had, uh, joe forte and he, we were like he's going to kill us. He ended up killing us. He's a freshman, he gave zero respect to any freshman. So anyways, he says all right, he tells Jeff, he's like, jeff, just leave Duhan at halftime, just leave Duhan and just go trap Jason Williams Whenever you want. And he did that. And Duhan, he's like he's not going to be on threes. He made some threes.

Speaker 2: 39:48

So I think it's a good, you know it's a good gamble, I think Right. I mean, you know he hit the threes, but he wasn't necessarily you got to give her something.

Speaker 1: 40:01

You got to give her, take something. Give and take. Like what am I willing to give up? Well, I'm willing to give up a Chris Duhon three, that's what. Well, it hurt us though. You know what I'm saying. So that was the game plan. So we had to live with. You see what I'm saying. So that's just how, how it went, you know.

Speaker 2: 40:21

Yeah, yeah, that was. That was I thought you know didn't play as well as they normally did, and maybe toward the end, when they kind of hit their stride a bit, they started, you know, it just became too much, and that was the other thing. You guys didn't have a lot of depth back then.

Speaker 1: 40:36

No, we had no depth and we were out there and it was tough. It was tough, but I mean, I think we gave a good fight. We gave a good fight, we gave a good fight. It was tough, you got to play a perfect game. You got to beat Duke and that team. You got to play a perfect game. They were the national champs.

Speaker 2: 40:49

Well, you played perfectly the week. You know, the couple days before against Kentucky are pretty close to it. That was a pretty amazing game as well in Philadelphia. But yeah, you know, going ahead to that UNC-Wilmington game, I always thought that what really hurt you guys? I thought you guys had dead legs in the overtime. You know you were playing a full-court press. I think you guys were down and you did the full-court press. But unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty sure that was the first year that the Pac-10 tournament had come back. So you had all these extra games in the tournament, yeah, and I think you got to the final game and it was like you had expended a lot of energy to get there. And then it was my sense that by the time you got to UNC Wilmington you guys just didn't have the gas. Is that a pretty fair assessment?

Speaker 1: 41:45

You're 100% correct. So it was the first year that the Pac-10 tournament was at the time and it was at the Staples Center and we did go to the finals. But in three games, in three days, and we're in the finals. And if Bibby is only playing six guys, you know. So we're playing. I don't even know if you can go back and look at the minutes that I was playing in those games, right, but I'm playing the whole game, all those games. Even we blew up Stanford, I think, first game, and so we're playing. We're playing the whole game, no matter what.

Speaker 2: 42:21

Yeah, yeah, you're exhausted.

Speaker 1: 42:23

Yeah, yeah, resisted and I'll never forget. One of my regrets is I used to take an ice bath before when I felt tired and the Wimmington game it was only like after a tournament, it was like a four-day, five-day stretch. You didn't even get a whole week, yeah, and I didn't take my routine ice bath and I was like, oh my God, and I didn't, I blame me not taking my ice bath for losing the game because I was not going to lie In overtime. I'd never been that tired in my life, yeah, you looked like it.

Speaker 2: 42:56

It looked like it, I was exhausted, I was exhausted. The sweat was coming out hard yeah.

Speaker 1: 43:03

And then you know, like you said, like we're pressing the whole game, we're playing our style, we don't change you. Yeah. And then you know, like you said, like we pressing the whole game, we, we're and we're, we're playing our, our style, we don't, we don't, we don't change. You know, so it was, we were, we were a little gas and you know, when craven hit that three, I thought we were gonna, we're gonna pull it out. But I.

Speaker 2: 43:17

Yeah, it was a big three.

Speaker 1: 43:19

Yeah, I missed that was my fault. I missed like an easy. I missed a bunny or something. I remember that. I remember now.

Speaker 2: 43:25

Oh, I remember oh, I remember that. Yeah, that you know. Bibby used to always say, like you know, uh, they don't, they don't need to rest, they, they have the, the, uh, the, the. You know the time out there, the time out every five minutes, and then there's the time regular time out, so they shouldn't have to remember him saying that he used to maybe maybe he would have his own.

Speaker 1: 43:42

he had his own. Like you don't need to rest, you can't get, can't get tired. He'd be. Like you can't get tired, you can't get hurt, you can't get, you know you can't like if you do it, somebody's taking your spot, like you know, you can't, you know so. Even have as like you can't like, always looking over your shoulder, you can't, you can't, you know so. But yeah, yeah, but that's no excuse. We should have still won. We should have still won. I don't know, that's no excuse.

Speaker 2: 44:07

That's why it's March Madness. One thing to mention too.

Speaker 3: 44:12

In the Pac-10 tournament y'all played. Actually that was a really good season for the Pac-10. Three games you played three ranked teams. Stanford was number 16. Oregon was number nine. I think Arizona was like number six at that point. So it wasn't like I mean you blew out Stanford in the first game, but you know those are three quality opponents. It's not like you're just kind of waltzing to the finals like you're in the West Coast Conference or something that takes a toll.

Speaker 1: 44:38

Well, every game is tough.

Speaker 3: 44:41

To that point? Could you tell the team was tired leading up to the Wilmington week? Or could you just say, do you tell, like man, this we're just, we're not the same? Or was it only like when you're actually back in game time and you thought, wow, um, this could be kind of rough here no, you don't know any of that stuff like before, you know.

Speaker 1: 45:00

Really, you just, you just know like we got a short week here. You know we got a short week, you know. But I think that also too, we were a little too like relaxed. Like the year before we were hunting down people. We were hungry, you know. Then we got fat. We're the Cinderella, now we're good, now we're ranked, now everybody's picking us to be in the final four.

Speaker 1: 45:30

So we got too fat and then we don't have the same team that we had before, you know. So it was a lot. And then we got too comfortable, if you ask me. So more than being tired, it was we was comfortable and we wasn't hungry to go and take the team because we could have even being tired, we still could have won the game right, but we weren't hungry enough to go in there. And then in the tournament they made everything. They were like how we were the year before. They made everything. And then you can kind of tell in the game and you're just like that's crazy and they're telling us, like man, this kid ain't made a shot all in season.

Speaker 1: 46:01

And you're like, oh damn, like you know that's last year. I know how I know, I know, I feel it. You know that's last year. I know how I know, I know, I feel it. You know, I feel it. I can feel it slipping away right.

Speaker 1: 46:09

So yeah, you know, but you didn't know. I didn't know until the game, but we definitely were sitting too fat and too comfortable and everything leading up to the doing interviews all week and stuff for CBS and all types of BS and stuff Like, come on, stop it, you. And all types of BS and stuff.

Speaker 2: 46:26

Like come on, stop it.

Speaker 1: 46:27

We're going to play this in the Sweet 16. And all these promos that they got to air. Now play record now. Forget to do later. We were too fat, we were too comfortable, we wasn't focused.

Speaker 3: 46:43

So that's the real right there. It kind of seems like you have to learn that lesson once before you can get through it, especially if you've kind of just gone up that mountain already.

Speaker 1: 46:50

Yeah, because we didn't know, because we weren't like used to being I mean, we're not UCLA, you're always good, you know used to this. We were, like you know, just had to build this up from the ground, from the gutter. You know, made this run. You know what I'm saying. So I mean, for me it was heartbroken just to lose that. I had a lot of expectations for the team. That was a heartbreaking loss and everything. But you're right, it shows you.

Speaker 2: 47:14

Well, that was a good team. That was a good team. I mean, they didn't have you lost Calabrian and Trepanier, but you know, craven was good. You had the Jerry Dupree game. Was that the Jerry Dupree game in the Pac-10 tournament? Was that the one where the Staples Center was chanting Jerry Dupree? Yeah, that might have been yeah, that was yeah. It was because he was playing.

Speaker 1: 47:38

Yeah, we were playing amazing in the Pac-10 tournament. Him and Desmond. They were playing great in that thing, you know, and like the whole year, like because they were young guys, so Bibby was trying to find this lineup who to play and you're young, so this guy's playing good one day. This is playing. You know, I'm the older one so I'm like finally, like all right now, every game I can play well because I've been here for three years so I already know what it takes to be successful. I wasn't playing as well before and everything, so so it's it's tough. It's tough on the young, young players. They got to find their way, you know.

Speaker 2: 48:10

Yeah, well, after your uh USC career, you, you, um, you were drafted and then you got hurt and uh, and then you went onto a career overseas that you I mean you played so many places. Uh, what was some of your favorite um places that you played, uh, played during your career?

Speaker 1: 48:30

Yeah, I played a lot of places. I think it was like 10 countries and like four different continents, something like that. I don't even know A lot of it's. You know it's a lot. It's a lot. You know I really enjoyed towards the end of my career, being over in Argentina. I spent a lot of time over there. The people they just really took to me. I played for great clubs, organizations over there. I was able to win some cups and stuff and go to the finals a few times. I really enjoyed it over there. You know I really I was able to meet my wife over and when I was playing over she's Italian over in Rome playing over there. So you know it was it was great. It was great. It was a great experience and one of the, you know, I wouldn't give back for the world.

Speaker 2: 49:23

And you just finished up just a few years ago and then maybe had a little break. What made you decide to get into coaching?

Speaker 1: 49:32

Yeah, I finished up. Covid Might have still been playing, I don't know, so, covid, and then I was like I always felt like I was the kind of coach on the floor and that was kind of my calling. I called a few radio games for usc. I remember that. Yeah, you know, I enjoyed that. I enjoyed that. I had fun doing that.

Speaker 1: 49:53

You know, um, it's just a little removed from the, you know, from the action. You know I started to miss the locker room, you know, because I was like all right, I started I didn't know I was going to do. I was able to, lucky enough, I'd go back to usc and finish my degree up, so I was going to do. I was lucky enough to go back to USC and finish my degree up, so I was happy to do that and I was alright. So, and then coaching, it was just felt natural to me. I was able to go into the NBA coaching development program and learn a bunch of stuff, you know, from the top NBA coaches and everything, and just learn. And then I was given an opportunity. I'm like okay, okay, this is this is like what I want to do, what I always see myself doing, what I'm comfortable with, and you know, just waiting myself to like give back to the game. So I'm just really happy.

Speaker 2: 50:38

Yeah, um, were you following SC basketball during that time? I know, overseas it's probably. You know you're probably into doing your thing and but. But what do you think about the journey that SC basketball has been on since you left?

Speaker 1: 50:53

It's been only since it kind of hit a peak. I was there, then we hit a valley. Now I think we're getting back to the peak. Andy Enfield, he had his top program, know, but they put us back on the map. I felt we're making a tournament. Um, we were putting out lottery picks year after year. Uh, so there's a lot of talent coming through at sea, a lot of buzz, so we're definitely back on the map. Uh, we've been winning games, beating u UCLA up. I went to a few games. We beat them up, you know, a few times and everything. So it was just great to see us back, like you know, being talked about having the buzz back in the city and everything. And I got to follow more of the team this year, you know. But I know Coach Musselman. I met him, like I came to the NIL thing a few months ago.

Speaker 2: 51:47

He's an Ohio guy.

Speaker 1: 51:49

Yeah, exactly, he's an Ohio guy. He's Brecksville, ohio. He's out here. He's a Cleveland guy, actually Cleveland and everything. So I know that he's like he's going to have a team ready and stuff. He's a no-nonsense type guy and he's the type of coach that I think that these players need and he's a great recruiter. I think we're going to be at the top again.

Speaker 2: 52:09

Okay, mark may have something else, but I want to close myself with this. Okay, so the 2001 Elite Eight team versus the other Elite Eight team, with Evan Mobley, with Mobley yeah, who they had on the Mobley team.

Speaker 1: 52:25

Who they had on the team. They had the Mobley brothers.

Speaker 2: 52:28

They had Mobley, both Mobleys they had.

Speaker 1: 52:30

Drew Peterson.

Speaker 2: 52:32

They had Taj Eby Eby. And who else? They had Mark.

Speaker 1: 52:37

And they.

Speaker 2: 52:38

No, he was John.

Speaker 1: 52:40

They. No, they had I'm sorry, no, no, no.

Speaker 2: 52:43

Why am I forgetting?

Speaker 1: 52:44

I know You're, I do a podcast About you.

Speaker 2: 52:46

Oh she, I don't know, why am I forgetting?

Speaker 1: 52:48

I know I do a podcast about you, oh Chavez.

Speaker 3: 52:50

Goodwin, he came off the bench, goodwin, isaiah White. Oh yeah, isaiah White, isaiah White.

Speaker 2: 53:00

They had a really deep team, but you guys had the starting five. I'd say your starting five was better, but what do you think? How do you think your team would have done against that team?

Speaker 1: 53:11

I don't think they could beat us.

Speaker 2: 53:15

I don't think they could beat us, sorry.

Speaker 1: 53:18

I don't think they could beat us. They can't beat us.

Speaker 2: 53:20

No.

Speaker 1: 53:21

They can't beat us. No, they can't. I just think we were a seasoned team. That's why I say that they were a younger team. Mobley and them they were young. When Mobley was doing his freshman year. I didn't start doing it until my senior year, so I'm not comparing there. You know what I'm saying. I just think as a team we were together already three years. They were kind of like a younger team, but they were tough. We were together already three years.

Speaker 1: 53:48

They were kind of like a younger, a younger team, that you know. But they were tough, I cause I went to that was the COVID year, so I went to, I called, I called my game and saw him actually, you know, with no fans and everything, and it was weird. Yeah, you know, it was weird but that was a good team though.

Speaker 3: 54:10

There was thing. Yeah, yeah, mark, uh, yeah, no more questions for me, sam, honest, just from my heart, dude, you are so beloved by the fans. I know people say it, but just honest to god, you are just so so beloved. Uh, maybe because that was my favorite team of my time. But god bless you, man. Um, honest to god, just just memories for a freaking lifetime for me.

Speaker 1: 54:25

Thank you so much much I mean it is. I'm just happy to see him. I'm an old man and I forget about a lot of this stuff and I think everybody else did too. So I'm just happy to see that you know you didn't forget about this stuff and I you know, and people are still talking about this over the water coolers and everything. Debating who?

Speaker 2: 54:44

you know we won't forget Sam. Sam clancy, thanks for coming on the dunk city podcast. Great catching up with you. Good luck to you and your family and good luck to you and your coaching career. We hope to see you, you know, as a head coach. Uh, down the road here one day thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 55:01

Fight on all right.

Speaker 2: 55:02

Fight on, fight on yeah, thank you Thank you. Your reminder that the Dunk City podcast, brought to you by uscbasketballcom, is the only podcast and uscbasketballcom is the only website dedicated to Trojan basketball and only to Trojan basketball.

Speaker 3: 55:20

Our efforts here are a labor of love. So if you could show us a little bit of love and go over to Spotify or Apple music wherever you listen to your podcasts and give us a like, a follow, five stars, a quality review that helps boost us in the search engines and lets other Trojan basketball fans know that they're not alone.

Speaker 2: 55:37

And that'll do it for this week's episode of the dunk city podcast. We hope you enjoyed our trip down memory lane with Sam Clancy, the great Sam Clancy, I should say We'll be back soon with another great pod. And just a reminder Trojan basketball is just around the corner. See you next time and fight on. So do the right thing, but with a record test. And then you did something wrong. You said it was great, and now you don't know how you could ever plan.

Speaker 1: 56:11

Because you're all confused cause you want me to, but then you want me to do it the same way as you. I know it's not this much of a lot. I don't want anymore. I'm so good now. Thank you you.