Speaker 2: 0:06

Welcome to the Dunk City Podcast. Trojans fundraising. Usc is on to the Sweet 16 for the first time since 2000. All right, welcome everyone back to season two, episode one of the Dunk City podcast. The first game of the Eric Musselman era is approaching. Monday night, November 4th, it is USC against UT Chattanooga at 7 pm in Galen Center. The first game of the Muslim era. Very exciting times at USC basketball, Exciting times here at uscbasketballcom and our Dunk City podcast going into season two. We have with us here our usual co-host, Mark Baxstrom. Season two we have with us here our usual co-host, Mark Baxstrom and we have added our rising young star of USCBasketballcom, Sky Liam.

Speaker 1: 1:15

Thanks for coming on, guys. Oh yeah, you know, and as we'll talk about, actually, we have had two Eric Musselman games, exhibition games that were. This most recent one was pretty intense.

Speaker 2: 1:23

Yeah, yeah. How are you doing, mark? You just got back from Japan, right?

Speaker 3: 1:26

I did. That was a lot of fun. It is October 31st, it's October, but we're already talking about hoops. We are ahead of schedule, dare I say? A little bit like the team versus my expectations.

Speaker 2: 1:38

Yeah, we dispensed with baseball last night because the Dodgers won before November, so that's good, we don't have to talk baseball anymore. Usc football is in the doldrums so we can focus on basketball. And it's usually the case historically. We'll talk about this too is that when USC football struggles, USC basketball tends to step up. But let's talk a little bit about this preseason team, the production and the results that we've seen. But I want to start out first with what Sky has seen at practice. Sky's been to a couple of practices so far this year and it's really great. We've seen some highlights of that on our YouTube page. For those of you who want to see the videos from those practices, go to our YouTube page. Just type in uscbasketballcom or Dunk City Podcast. You'll find it there. But, Sky, what are your impressions so far of the team from what you've seen at practice?

Speaker 1: 2:34

Both practices I've been to has featured a team that is locked in and really working hard. You know, there's no wasted energy and if anybody's lagging coach is going to call him out immediately. I mean this last practice that was open to the media, which was a couple days before the Gonzaga game. They were completely hyper-focused on winning that game and what's really interesting, that Musselman does. He's a huge proponent of drills and I talked to him after and he said you know, listen, we can't change our drills every single practice. We're not going to do a new drill, but what we do is we take those drills and we alter them so they are specific to the team that we're going to play, and that's what they did with Gonzaga.

Speaker 1: 3:24

You know they had all the different players on the team scouted, as I wrote. They had all these posters up on the wall in the practice court with photos of all the players, bullet points about their strengths and weaknesses, and they were really like almost testing these players. You know the players on USC. Do you remember this factor? What are we doing in this situation? You know, and verbally calling things out.

Speaker 2: 3:51

Yeah, it seems pretty rare to have, uh, the chance to play a team like Gonzaga in the preseason. They're ranked number six by the AP Mark what? What are your impressions of what you saw in that game, which ended up being a 93-91 USC victory?

Speaker 3: 4:05

The one thing, just to Sky's point, that really sticks out to me and you see it in this game is one word that comes to mind is urgent. There seems to be urgency in practice. There was urgency in getting obviously out of necessity, in getting the team together, and there seems to be urgency in just developing the team. And this is not to crap on the prior, you know, the prior head coach. They seem to be a lot more. Just let nature take its course and just guide nature. And this is just like you know what Screw the forces of nature. We are just going to, we're going to make light bend, just to just to win as soon as possible.

Speaker 2: 4:41

Yeah, that's a great way to look at it. I think you're right. I think it's natural for any program that's been around for 10, 11 years as Andy Enfield's was that had a level of success, that it was used to, that they were used to doing things the way they were used to doing them and introducing new concepts and new ways of doing those things are probably, you know, kind of were seen as foreign or nonproductive. But it seems that Coach Musselman, in his short time at USC, has implemented a level of enthusiasm and engagement, both with the team, with the community and with the media that wasn't seen at USC at least, probably since the beginning of the infield era at least. So, sky, what did you think about the Gonzaga game as it pertains to what you saw in practice? Specifically, you talked about the preparation. Did you see anything happen in the game that made you think, yeah, that's exactly what I saw in practice.

Speaker 1: 5:42

Yeah, in the last couple of years actually, we've seen USC go against Gonzaga and it felt like Gonzaga was bothering USC right from the tip, whereas in this game everybody was ready for that pressure that Gonzaga was going to apply. And you know they went over that in practice.

Speaker 1: 6:03

They went over a lot of specific defensive drills in practice and what I really liked about those drills seeing some practice footage from other schools maybe the one across town is that they're working on one-on-one defense. When I saw USC practicing defense, obviously one of the guards on the scout team is handling the ball, but the other four players on the floor are also incorporated into the drill and they're sticking with their man off ball and so it was a very holistic team defense concept and I think that really bore out. When you look at, you know, the performances, especially by some of Gonzaga's top players.

Speaker 1: 6:48

you know Nembhard obviously played very well, but some of their other big players from seasons past didn't really perform up to their usual standard and I think that intense USC defense that they've been working on really played a part in that. Can I follow up on?

Speaker 3: 7:05

that real quick, yeah, yeah please, because one thing that stood out to me in that game in just you know, watching our team for several years, you kind of watch with a specific focus or eye and I'm always used to looking for the one outstanding, singular, outstanding defender. And I didn't see that. And that's not surprising, considering the opponent scored 93 points and shot what? 46 percent, but that, that, exactly what I, what I saw, is exactly what Sky hit on there. It's like nobody is a standout defender, but as a unit, this, this defense, is very well coached, just as as as one unit. It was that just really stuck out to me.

Speaker 2: 7:43

Yeah, and and and you know, playing Gonzaga, you, it's really hard to get Gonzaga to play your game right Like it's. If you're if you're a slow it down team, you're not it's really hard to to to bend Gonzaga to your, to your will and to your tempo. Gonzaga is going to and if they, you can try to slow them down and try to bend them to your will. But if they, once they break free and suddenly things shake loose, you know they're off to the races. And what I thought was really encouraging was that USC definitely tried to do that and then Gonzaga wasn't really having any of it and we just kept pace with them. We played their game, we showed we can score.

Speaker 2: 8:26

There's a ton of USC has a ton of guys who can put the ball in the basket, and that's not something we've had the last few years, we've only. The last few years it's been Boogie Ellis, drew Peterson. You know two or three guys who are real, authentic scorers. But and the rest of the guys who were just sort of scraping together buckets here and there or maybe they'd have a good game every once in a while. But now you've got guys who, coming over from other schools We've talked about this In one of our previous podcasts. I mean, almost all of them were averaging At least double figures Coming over right and a couple of them were averaging Almost 20 points a game. So we've got guys who can score. So it's very heartening to me double figures coming over right and a couple of them were averaging almost 20 points a game. So we've got guys who can score. So it's very heartening to me that, hey, if we need to play the kind of game where we need to score 93 to win, we can play that kind of game. Right.

Speaker 2: 9:17

And there are some issues that are like, for example, matt Nollling trying to defend a quick point guard. Right, we saw that a few times when Nembhard just kind of blew by him, and that's to be expected to some extent. You're not going to have the perfect answer to every quick point guard. But what I like about the Musselman approach is hey, we have this liability, let's make up for it by exploiting the advantages we have against these teams in other areas, right. So he's talked about that before where maybe we don't have a lot of bigs who are able to dominate the boards. But if we can get our big guards to dominate their guards on the boards, then you sort of make up with that in volume. So I like that approach, and it seemed to really play out with how we saw USC handle Gonzaga, don't you guys think?

Speaker 1: 10:12

Here's one tidbit from practice I want to share, which piggybacks off your point, mark, regarding the defense, but also what you said about matchups and anybody in USC kind of stepping up when necessary. There was one point where they were practicing this five on five defensive drill and the guard for Gonzaga, for the scout team, was bringing the ball up and Musselman whistled and stopped the practice almost immediately and he pulled one player aside and said cause, this player had started to rotate to the ball and he said listen, I don't know who's going to bring up the ball for Gonzaga. It could be Nembhard, it could be battle right, don't watch the ball, stick with your man. And that kind of principled approach not even letting the drill continue in an incorrect fashion I mean, that's what Muff's and all his coaches do constantly during practice, and that was a really specific moment that I thought was very detailed and cool.

Speaker 2: 11:11

Yeah, you know, and the other great thing about this game and we talked about how Gonzaga had really handled USC the last two times he played, first in the Elite Eight, where really the fact that Taj Eady was coming down the court and got stripped by their big All-American center, which sort of set the tone for the entire game, and it was all kind of downhill from there.

Speaker 2: 11:38

And then, of course, last year going up against Gonzaga, which was really a deflating loss, the mental toughness aspect, the intimidation of like the sort of like the elite teams, was sort of an issue. And I think that that beating Gonzaga this time, you know, look, it's an exhibition, both teams are trying to win, no doubt about it, but the I think it's a bit of a cathartic experience and a bit of a marker, you know, sort of saying like hey, this is sort of a new USC team. Marker of you know sort of saying like, hey, this is sort of a new USC team, here we are, uh, this is a team that can beat a Gonzaga. Don't you think that that beating Gonzaga just really sets the tone potentially for this season going in Mark possibly now.

Speaker 3: 12:25

What's interesting too is you know, we've kind of inferred it but not explicitly said it Gonzaga wanted to win this game. You could tell. Especially, there was a stretch in the second half when it came in kind of like one of those NBA playoff showdowns, like all right, you're going to do this, watch this. Just back-to-back-to-back threes, and with some swagger behind it too, were they playing as if it was an NCAA tournament game? No, you know an NCAA tournament game. No, you're not going to go that deep in the well, this part. But you know, both teams really wanted to win and you know I'm so used to seeing, you know seeing this kind of game, especially this part of the season, being a learning experience, and it was a learning experience. But you know we're taking away, you know, a lot more than just an okay, next time we need to improve on this. This, this, I mean this is a huge confidence boost.

Speaker 2: 13:16

And you made a great point about.

Speaker 3: 13:18

You know the maturity of this team. We got punched in the mouth quite a few times and using you know, last year I kept referring to the horse name. Obviously, you know one obviously got headed. That was it for obviously. And there's no obviously in this team. This team will just stare you in the eye all the way to the wire.

Speaker 2: 13:35

Yeah, sky, you've spent time in China, you speak fluent Mandarin, and this is my setup, because I want to do an old quote from Mao Zedong. He said you know, quantity is its own quality was one of his old lines, and I think that USC's quantity of maturity, quantity of scores, quantity of experience is its own quality on this team, and this is what's going to, I think, make USC a much better team than people realize. What do you think about that insight?

Speaker 1: 14:12

You know, almost all the players that played major minutes in that exhibition were seniors, some of them fifth-year seniors. Obviously, desmond Claude is a junior but a very experienced player as well, and you see that on the court. You see that in player as well, and you see that on the court. You see that in practice as well. Like everybody is following the game plan and they're running it to their maximum ability. What I really liked was that USC actually had fewer turnovers than the game against UTSA and it felt like some of those turnovers than the game against UTSA.

Speaker 1: 14:50

And it felt like some of those turnovers were uncharacteristic even in the second exhibition game, you know. So watching practice, and it seems like every time they do this five-man weave drill to try to find the best shot and every time they pass the ball, every single player calls out the player's name that he's passing the ball to Every single drill, and there were two times. I don't want to just point fingers, but I remember that Rashawn Agee passed the ball to no one, like twice.

Speaker 2: 15:27

Well, once, I think he was passing to St Thomas and St was like turned the other way.

Speaker 1: 15:28

And then the second time he really passed it to no one, like twice. Well, once I think he was passing to saint thomas and saint was like turned the other way. And then the second time he really passed it to no one and both were like breakaway. Gonzaga layups, yeah, and that was because he didn't do what they had practiced. And so I watching that, I know that musselman it's easy for him to say, look so remember what we practiced, do what we practiced, and that's not going to happen. And so that experience factor of being able to take criticism but also knowing what your responsibility is, I think that's going to really buoy this team as they go through the season.

Speaker 2: 16:04

Yeah, hopefully guys don't call out no one as they throw the ball away. So no, that's very encouraging stuff for sure. I think one of the things that really surprised me about the game was the fact that USC doesn't really have a true point guard, and maybe Gonzaga wasn't too focused on trying to exploit that from a ball handling standpoint. Like, as far as putting pressure, they put a little bit of pressure from time to time, a little bit of three-quarters pressure, I think, and if I recall there was a little bit of press at one point, wasn't there Just toward the end, and USC handled it pretty well. Most of the turnovers were things like stepping out of bounds on the three-point line in the corner for those corner threes. What is that like? Three or four times that happened.

Speaker 1: 16:53

It happened three times. Yeah, Once again a totally kind of almost a fluky type of mistake.

Speaker 2: 16:58

Yeah, you're not going to have that happen a lot and you're looking at it's a different arena. They're playing in Accra-Jur, which Sky you made a great point that Musselman scheduling that game at Accresure is a great way to get kind of some experience in that arena, since we have a tournament to play later on in the month.

Speaker 1: 17:16

Yeah, and that was intentional. They worked with Accresure to do that. Actually, I think the arena reached out to them and clearly they said wait a second. This is a great idea. Let's do this and Gonzaga was on board, Although funny enough, even though it was far closer to LA. I think there was a lot more Gonzaga fans at that game.

Speaker 2: 17:41

They were very vocal. Yeah, and you know, I want to talk about the bigs real quick because that's been. There's been two areas of concern. One is the point guard position and two is the bigs. There's not a lot of bigs, not a lot of size. We have a lot of length and size from one to four, but not a lot at the five or the four, I guess, and not a lot of depth in those spots.

Speaker 2: 18:01

But what really has intrigued me is Josh Cohen, the way he has played in these games.

Speaker 2: 18:11

It's an interesting mesh because you have these wings that are great at handling the ball and there's a lot of good shooters and then you have this unorthodox 6'10 guy who puts up these unorthodox shots that don't look good but they go in.

Speaker 2: 18:34

And it's my thoughts that this kind of thing, when you have all these guys who are fundamentally sound and who are doing more orthodox style of play, and you have this little wild card in there, but as a big, I think that's an extra an x, an extra feature that I'm not saying it like makes up for the lack of depth, but but it, it's almost like it. It it's a sneaky way to make the bigs more effective in a way you know what I mean Like uh, uh, you don't expect it, if you're, if you're the opposing team, uh, for him to shoot those shots at that release point. And of course he's, and of course we talked about how he's a much better defender than we thought he would be, especially, you know, uh, in his rotations getting down low and the tenacity, and you can see why Eric Musselman wanted him at Arkansas.

Speaker 3: 19:30

Yeah, the one thing that stood out to me about that is it's, it's, you've got.

Speaker 3: 19:34

you know when he's on the court, you've got it's like you've got you know four guys in their early twenties who are just superior athletes, and you drop in a 40 year old guy from YMCA who just unfurls that game and it, to your point, it, it, it fits because it doesn't fit. And then you know not to look too far ahead. I'm not sure how I like that matchup against Umar Bala, who's at Indiana. I thought we were done with him forever, but apparently not.

Speaker 3: 19:59

But for a lot of teams that are super athletic that can be like the what do I do with this moment? Almost I don't know if you've ever seen the Taco Fall video where that kid who's half his size but twice his weight, is trying to guard him. It's like the inverse of that, where people are going to be like what do I do with this? Why is this guy even on the court and all of a sudden you look up and he's going to have like 10 points.

Speaker 2: 20:20

No, exactly, it's an interesting mix of players that is starting to really show itself in this Gonzaga game. You have the big point. You have the sort of like big, strong wings who can shoot it. You've got, I think, the guy who's going to be the guy, the star of the team, st Thomas, who can really do everything. He didn't have a great shooting night. He was wearing a mask. I think a lot of those shots are going to end up falling for him more nights than likely not.

Speaker 2: 21:00

And the thing that really impressed me about him in that game was he hit a couple shots down low. He played a little bit of bully ball at times when he needed to. He showed his physicality and to the point where I was watching the game on my laptop and I think I was kind of watching from a few feet away at one point and I was like man, who's that big power forward who just muscled that ball up there and I'm like, wow, that was St Thomas and he's a bigger guy than you realize, yeah, and he's tenacious. And what are your guys' thoughts on St Thomas and how far he can take it in this one year with USC?

Speaker 1: 21:39

St Thomas had five assists. I mean, really, when he and Claude are on the floor together, it's really like Claude is the one and Thomas is the 1A. They're both handling the ball and that actually, I think, makes Saint so much more dangerous, because he can make that play with the ball in his hands and get it to someone else, but he is not afraid to pull up from three and he can make that shot. He had a really nice make against Gonzaga, just a pull-up, you know where he knew he could shoot over his defender and I think the mask is affecting his shooting.

Speaker 1: 22:17

So hopefully he'll get that off soon, but at the same time it gives other players a chance to develop more if he's going to take a backseat with his shooting right now, yeah, what stood out to me, or what stands out to me, is number one.

Speaker 3: 22:30

Even they had it, he had a poor night shooting. I think he had a very good night in terms of shot selection. I didn't see a bunch of what are you doing, and that, to me, is way more important if if you just shoot poorly on great shots, I'm I'm perfect with that, yeah. The other thing sticks out to me is 13 field goal attempts, five assists and only two turnovers for a guy his size, superior, superior. That is just excellent ball care.

Speaker 2: 22:58

Yeah, the overall sharing and distribution of the ball. Like you said, the shot selection very disciplined and again goes back to that maturity, I think a mature player, knowing Eric Musselman's reputation as a really kind of demanding coach and a guy who will breathe fire down your neck if you do something wrong maybe for young guys it takes a while for that to sink in. How am I going to buy in and do everything and try to weigh that against your own ambitions? And you saw a little bit of that with Jalen Shelley coming in, I think, and maybe he might've taken the one. He might've taken one bad shot.

Speaker 2: 23:36

I think it was the air ball. I think he shot the air ball. From the three. I mean there's only a handful of arguably bad shots in the game. I don't even think there were that many. But I think that kind of one of the benefits of having mature players is that they know that they can't really mess around on the court because you have that type of coach who's going to hold you accountable. And I think this is a great incentive to keep doing the things that you're taught to do in practice distribute the ball, take good shots, play hard, and I think that's just what really stands out to me at this point heading into the season.

Speaker 3: 24:18

The counterpoint to that. During the counterpoint, in addition to what you've said. They know they can't screw around. They're also not going to play scared. Just say gosh, if I just don't do this perfectly, then you see it. With the younger players, what do they do? First thing they do is look over the bench and you're not going to see a lot of glances to the bench after one specific play from this group, at least from the top seven.

Speaker 2: 24:43

Yeah Well, monday we have USC against Chattanooga. Chattanooga actually won 21 games last season. They've got a pretty decent team coming back. The first games for new coaches has in recent years, not been the greatest for USC. Andy Enfield lost his first game at Utah State game at Utah State and I think O'Neal Kevin O'Neal lost his first game against CSUN. So Enfield, our Musselman has Chattanooga and a relatively not a hugely challenging out of conference schedule. What do you guys think about the matchup on Monday night? And more importantly I think to the overall kind of aspect of the program is how do you think the crowd's going to be? And, based on what we saw in the exhibition against UTSA Sky, what do you think the Galen is going to be like? Is it going to feel different than under Enfield?

Speaker 1: 25:50

Well, we talked about this outside the podcast, but for everyone wondering, the DJ is back. However it seemed at that UTSA exhibition that he has toned down his interjections in the game.

Speaker 2: 26:12

He's been neutered a bit.

Speaker 1: 26:15

Yeah, I don't know if that was a directive he was given. My hunch would be perhaps yes, and you know the students like him. I think a lot of the fans like him and he does his stuff during timeouts or during halftime. You know the shoot-arounds with the kids and stuff. It's very successful. I think a lot of the fans like him and he does his stuff during timeouts or during halftime. You know the shoot arounds with the kids and stuff.

Speaker 1: 26:35

It's very successful, I think. But I can't say if the crowds are necessarily going to show up immediately. I think especially how, given how big the crowds were at the start of last season- and then you know, maybe some fans or some students might feel a little burned.

Speaker 1: 26:51

I think it is going to be a process of getting bigger crowds out to galen, aside from for a few marquee games, uh. But I think you know the players and the coaches are going to do everything they can just to bring that energy and you know, if you, if you build it, they will come right. So if USC starts winning, a good streak here in the non-conference. Well then, we might start to see some more fans coming out after that.

Speaker 2: 27:19

Well, certainly, if anyone's paying attention, seeing a win over Gonzaga has certainly got to get some people excited, and I think that maybe, with football having its issues, uh, if people are wanting to get their their excitement uh out for USC sports, this is an outlet. And also you have, of course, women's basketball a very promising season, uh, coming up as well, so so I think Galen Center just might be where it's at this year when it comes to USC athletics.

Speaker 1: 27:50

I would hope so. I also want to point out that a lot of people mostly Gonzaga fans or pretty much people who aren't USC fans will say that was an exhibition game. The coaches were playing players they're not going to play usually. I don't know if you guys saw Mark Few's post-game interview. He was not happy at all and he actually blamed the refs for the loss. Ok, and you know, these coaches are trying to win those games.

Speaker 1: 28:20

They might experiment with a few early substitutions, which we saw from both coaches, but they treat it like a real game when they're on the court Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 28:30

Mark, you're the analytics guy, Based on what you saw, and based on what you saw with USC's efficiency on offensive defense against a team like Gonzaga which, again, is usually very among the most efficient teams offensively. When it comes to crunching the numbers and the course of the number six team in the preseason poll, should USC be ranked?

Speaker 3: 28:57

This is a separate conversation. I don't think any team should be ranked before you're a third of the way into the season. I don't think there should be rankings.

Speaker 2: 29:03

Well, okay, but we do live in a world where rankings exist and my thought is and like I said on the site formerly known as Twitter, I said that, look, usc just beat number six Gonzaga in not a secret scrimmage, but in an open scrimmage where both teams were trying to win USC has, I think, one of the highest levels of actual experience coming back on any team in the country Not experience with you at USC, but experience. Usc has guys who are like proven scorers at various levels and it has a coach who, who is, you know, one of the most highly regarded coaches in the country, who is known for doing just the kind of things that we're kind of seeing. Right, it's not like it's not his first rodeo. So my question is, why is it? I mean, maybe they will, maybe after you can't change the preseason rankings but maybe shortly after the first few games, maybe USC will be ranked. And I think that, certainly, if you go, you look at what they're talking about with ucla. Right, there's a lot of guys who are over at ucla who are not really proven in the way that usc's guys are proven. Right, there's a lot of and the same thing happened with you, say, last year and this could just be. You know usc basketball always complaining about the hype that ucla basketball gets and that's probably never going to change. But you go look at last year with UCLA bringing in all those Euros and everyone was excited about them, right? And of course they shat the bed, just like USC shat the bed last year.

Speaker 2: 30:39

And this year they're bringing in guys who are like Sky Clark, who is not necessarily like the most. He's controversial, he's like a polarizing player, right, not everybody likes. You know his abilities and they've got a lot of. They got guys coming back who are, who are good, but they didn't like necessarily set the world on fire last year. And then they're bringing over Kobe Johnson, who I complained about.

Speaker 2: 31:08

You know Kobe Johnson was coming off a better season with USC last year and wasn't getting any kind of I mean, he was getting a little bit of like accolades from people who really knew, but wasn't getting general accolades. And then last year Kobe helped the team shat the bed. And now he goes to UCLA and they're like, oh, he's going to be the big 10ender of the Year, blah, blah, blah. So you've got all these guys coming over to UCLA and Trent Perry, who I love, but he's a freshman right and there's this expectation that they're going to be a really good team, whereas USC comes in with all these guys who are really experienced, really proven, really mature, with the outstanding coach and it just seems that USC should be on people's radars really quick in the early season.

Speaker 3: 32:04

I tried to avoid the question and you waterboarded me into it, so I'll go ahead. There are two hats that I wear If I'm the metrics guy and I'm dispassionate, and I need to see proof. This is a great data point. But to your other, to you know, as we know this team, this is like the first real game they've had together. I need to see more stress tests to be convinced in that regard. Fair enough, here's where I'm going to get myself in trouble. I'll try to put nicely. If I am a pollster who typically is less able to observe and and digest data than fuck metrics is sure I'll put them number 10 because I had one flashy thing just thrown right in front of my face and I react to shiny objects. So the reality is probably more towards just the inertia that that lies with USC as relates to pollsters. Going back to your, you know your other point about some of the new UCLA players, clearly USC hoops got the better of the sky for sky trades. That's right.

Speaker 1: 33:02

I appreciate it, but don't ask me to go one-on-one against Sky.

Speaker 2: 33:08

I think you are probably would be more consistent than he has been he's shown in his career.

Speaker 2: 33:16

But you know, but I guess I guess it's going back to like Eric Musselman is a very respected coach and he's coming off of a couple of lead eights and a sweet 16.

Speaker 2: 33:28

And it just it just strikes me as interesting that that there are other coaches and other places who are highly respected, who, once you get to the preseason you'll see things like oh, they lost a bunch of players, but you always get some ready, you know, and we can expect this team to be good. And Eric Musselman comes over and I understand that all these players are new, um, but this is again, this is kind of what he does. So it's just. It's just interesting to me that like again, that it's maybe it'll, it'll, it'll change in the early season because people will be like okay, yeah, this team we saw against gonzaga. If, assuming usc starts out well, they might eventually pop in there. But it strikes me as interesting how and I guess it's a complaint it happens in football USC is the benefit of this in football how the hype machines around these programs generate rankings and generate attention, and I think Musselman knows what he's up against in that regard, which is why he's he's going out there and pressing the flesh and doing all the media that he's doing.

Speaker 1: 34:37

I think the underdog mentality helps this team and you know, it's a little bit like Hollywood, where you have an actor and maybe the last three movies didn't do so well, but they were big movies and so the producer says well, we can finance the next movie based off this guy's name and we're watching movies, but you know, and it's the, same deal with the coach.

Speaker 1: 34:58

you know, like just okay, if we're taking Mick Cronin for an example, him and USC they had very similar seasons last year. But you know the press says, well, but he went to a final four one time, so maybe he's more likely to do that again and they maybe UCLA will be very good this year. But it's kind of just that reputation. Especially to Mark's point, if you're going with this preseason poll, you know you have nothing else to really go on. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:27

I think, watching this USC team and how they've executed uh, especially against a team like gonzaga, and they're like, entirely comprised, I guess, with the exception of uh what, maybe terrence williams, but otherwise comprised of mid-major transfers.

Speaker 3: 35:46

I think we could be seeing a blueprint for future.

Speaker 1: 35:49

Muscle men approaches because last year he had this totally stacked team and from what I've read the issue was kind of that they didn't really buy in and they didn't really play together. So if he gets guys who have an amount of ability but are less heralded and super hungry, they can beat a Gonzaga you know, or whatever we'll end up seeing this season.

Speaker 1: 36:15

But that kind of coach ability and that chip on the shoulder of the players as well as the coach, I think could be a huge asset this season, but also going forward too.

Speaker 2: 36:27

Yeah, and you know, in the era of the transfer portal there's different approaches that teams take right. There's teams that are going all transfer, there's teams that are mixing and matching, putting band-aids on spots where they can, and it seems like a coach who can master that roster formulation the best can really get some quick success. Sky, you were out at practice and you heard Coach Musselman talk about sort of the recruiting approach that they're going to take and we've seen a lot of big time recruits for 2025 that USC has been in on and has been in on the last three or four top three or four and so far no one's pulled the trigger for USC and speculation is that USC is just getting outbid. But you had an insight as to sort of reading between the lines about what his approach will be going forward on the roster building aspect, at least when it comes to recruiting right.

Speaker 1: 37:35

So you know, for anyone who hasn't seen the media session with Musselman after that practice, I'll paraphrase his words a little bit. I don't want to get him in trouble so you can hear his exact words if you want to go check that out. But basically he the most important thing in his mind that he said is that he doesn't want to compromise his flexibility next season. And there's a lot of big NIL numbers. I think I mean Dibansa I don't know how to pronounce his name.

Speaker 2: 38:13

AJ Dibansa.

Speaker 1: 38:14

He's going to get like four or five million.

Speaker 2: 38:16

That's the number that's floating around right Crazy. Why would you do that for a year You're not going to. You know BYU is going to pay that money.

Speaker 1: 38:24

Well, it's a bubble, right, and it's going to burst. But that's exactly what Musselman is trying to guard against, because he also thinks that there is quite possibly going to be some rule changes here and he doesn't want to commit essentially all of his available capital to one player and then say well, actually, you know, that's the maximum you can spend on a team.

Speaker 1: 38:49

And then who else is going to be on the team? He's very, very conscious of that. I can only imagine he's had conversations with, uh, people in the know who've led him to believe that. But basically he said the usc has been in the running, you know, in all these tight races, like you mentioned, chris, for these highly recruited players, and they're just coming in second or third.

Speaker 2: 39:11

And I think it has to do with being mindful of the NIL distribution in the future there, yeah, and it seems like, after seeing Isaiah Collier come in for one and done, and seeing other schools come and have one and done players the individual one and done, and seeing other schools come and have one and done players the the individual one and done, I think who who fits into your overall squad? You know, that's fine, but chasing a lot of these guys for essentially one season strikes me as as a little bit of fool's gold. I think AJ DeBonsa is a generational player, for sure, and he's going to go to BYU and he's going to be the star of the team and it's going to be some must-see TV for him. But I think the era when Carmelo Anthony being the guy to lead, he's the last one-and-done, like, where he's the center of the team to lead a team to a national title Right, like you know, aj DeBonts is fantastic Is he going to lead BYU to a national title? No, he's going to get them a lot of attention and they're paying for the attention Right, they're paying for. We're trying to build the BYU basketball brand and and I think Coach Musselman is sort of beyond that now, where it's like we don't need a player to build a brand I'm going to build the brand as the coach. It's my program and, and talking about these guys, the sewer rats as he calls them, which is which is something that they can embrace, I think he, I think his approach to like building the roster based on, based on like personalities and and what kind of humans these guys are and whether they can they can, you know, be team players and the, and he likes that challenge, I think, to forge that roster but but kind of subordinating all that to some guy coming in that you're paying for one year and he may or may not mesh with what the guys you have or what you're trying to do. So I hate to be the guy who's like, just trust the process, trust the coach, but to some extent I think USC fans kind of have to trust that and know that and, just looking at what he was able to do this year from a roster construction perspective, that he should be able to do that again next year.

Speaker 2: 41:41

And, like you said, we've got two or three freshmen in the program already. I think actually, you have Isaiah Elohim, you have Jalen Shelley, you have Patton, the Patton brothers, I guess the one and then there's, you know, desmond Claude theoretically can come back for another year. So, and Yates, right, and Yates, so you have, you have a little core there. And so I think each year you just kind of, you know, you sort of have the overlap where where there's a you know a few more freshmen, you keep a few more freshmen in the in the program and they get experience, and so now they're upperclassmen and then you bring in the transfers on top and so maybe it's like one third freshmen, one third returners and one third transfer portal. I feel like that's like a good mix and maybe what coach Muscle is trying to trying to go for Does feel like that's like a good mix and maybe what coach muscle is trying to trying to go for.

Speaker 3: 42:37

Does that seem? Seem like it makes sense? Let me jump in on a couple of points on there. I think that there's. That's a. That's a very plausible path because, to go across sports for a second, I don't see an analog in in in basketball as there is to. It takes time to develop your offensive and defensive lines. You just can't ship those in over the portal. That just doesn't work sustainably. I think you can do that in hoops. So I think that's a model that will work. Going back to kind of like the roster management, if you will, if I take $4 million and I just basically spread it across 10 players instead of one, I can get some really nice sewer rats for $400,000 for a season.

Speaker 3: 43:13

That's some premium, platinum class sewer rats. And I just want to ask both of you guys Now. I never was close to being offered an athletic scholarship. So just out of the goodness of my heart, I went to USC. Had no interest in going to BYU. But, if I'm not even going to make any money for them. I don't think I would go to BYU for $4.5 million. How about you two?

Speaker 2: 43:38

I mean, yeah, I don't know, probably yeah, because that's you know some of these guys are. You know AJ DeBont is going to very shortly have, you know, fuck you money pretty soon. So you know in his mind he's like why not get it started? I get it, he could go anywhere and for whatever reason, you know BYU, you know they all would have paid for whatever reason. Byu has the connection. So it is what it is in that regard. But let's kind of pivot here a little bit and just look forward to. I know we're not going to go into a deep dive into the Big Ten and into the season, but just from a broad perspective, looking at the out-of-conference schedule and then going into the Big Ten, what do you guys expect out of the team this year based on what you've seen so far? And let's just make some kind of casual predictions on team record place in the Big Ten and what kind of postseason placement we may or may not have. So do you want to start with that, scott?

Speaker 1: 44:50

placement we may or may not have. So do you want to start with that, scott? Yeah, you know, one thing that I really liked in both exhibition games, but even more so in the Gonzaga game, is that this year's USC team is very physical, and I mean that one in the players on the team, the actual roster, you know, we've seen for years. I don't know if it's just like a coaching philosophy or if it's happenstance, but USC had in the past years a lot of really wiry guys, kind of light in the tail, wiry guys kind of light in the tail, and, uh, and a lot of them. This is just kind of a, you know, very subjective, but they looked young like just their faces and stuff.

Speaker 1: 45:39

They look like young guys, that's a great point this year, like you'd always see usc go against you know, like in the tournament a couple years ago against michigan state, it's like, oh, you have these men, yeah, and USC this year. They're men, you know. I mean, these guys they're built, they're not like super bulky. You know, Like sometimes you see those guys who look like they should be on a football field but they're on the basketball court.

Speaker 2: 46:05

It's not necessarily that.

Speaker 1: 46:13

It's like these prototypical, like strong basketball guys. I mean you had avo was the leading rebounder and he's I guess he's like the, the two or three, kind of the three maybe, like a way, yeah, but you know, seven bores that dude is pretty jacked and he's a legit six seven yeah um and so one, the quality of uh, just like the physicality of the roster, is much different than past years.

Speaker 1: 46:36

But also on offense and defense, they do not shy away from contact. On offense, musclemen, you know, they do specific drills to try to draw contact and finish through contact. And then on defense, it's very physical and in the past we've seen usc wilt against physical teams. Uh, where you know they just get pushed around basically. And this year muscleman is kind of playing that game where I think it's like, dare the refs to call the fouls? You know you're not going to call everyone. And uh, like on the big desmond claude dunk, towards the end of that game his defender, uh had a little help going to the ground. You know I watched the replay. Yeah and uh, you know, I think that's going to bode well for the big 10 great point, I.

Speaker 2: 47:26

I think having that anticipatory approach, uh, to physicality, uh, heading into the Big Ten, is a great way to do that. I mean, looking at football, I mean we can see how the officiating is different with football. Like the Big Ten, big Ten offensive lines hold in every play. Yeah Right, they hold in every play, which I didn't realize it to what extent they do, but they hold in every play To some extent.

Speaker 2: 47:49

A lot of O-linemen you know, they used to call it Tim Davis, the old O-line coach, used to call them bullshit artists. Right, the guys who you know they're not using great technique, they're just kind of getting by, doing things that the refs don't necessarily see. But you see that a lot of the Big Ten and I think the USC O-line goes in saying we're blocking the proper way, and I think the USC O-line goes in saying we're blocking the proper way and so they don't get the same advantages and the refs don't give them the same leeway. And so I think that, to Sky's point about the physicality aspect, if you set that tone early that hey, we're a physical team and we're going to go into this physical conference and be physical, then you're sort of like laying the foundation for what the refs subconsciously expect to call against you, right? So I think that's a great point you make there, sky.

Speaker 3: 48:39

Yeah, if I can just use, you know, a team that we've seen in not too long ago play against USC, I think our size and physicality, just if I use kind of Michigan State as a stocking point or a counter data point, if you will I think that this team is far, far, far more ready to deal with the game with, like, their physical backcourt as much as anything else, than teams that we've had prior to this season.

Speaker 2: 49:09

Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. I think that's, and also the depth there, because I think that someone like St Thomas you can see by the fact that he had to wear a mask he's not shying from contact, he's not shying from mixing it up. These guys are laying themselves out on the floor, so there's probably going to be some nicks and bruises during the course of the season. Some guys are probably going to get hurt and that's why having that experience depth is great. And for those guys that didn't get a whole lot of minutes in the game, looking at guys like Bryce Pope and even Harrison Hornery, some of the other young guys that didn't get in they're going to have these moments where they're going to get a chance to play and, like you mentioned, sky, we're going to have a Bryce Pope game at some point, right? So yeah, it's encouraging.

Speaker 2: 50:03

Let's do a quick scan of the schedule. You got Chattanooga on Monday. The following Thursday is Idaho State. We'll have Our next pod, will cover both of those two games and we'll preview the UT Arlington game, which is on November 13th, and then the Cal game, which is on November 17th, which probably is, in that early stages, a good test, because Cal is sort of showing signs of life under Mark, not Mark Madsen. Who's their coach? What did I? Yeah, mark Madsen.

Speaker 3: 50:41

Yeah, it's.

Speaker 2: 50:41

Mark.

Speaker 1: 50:41

Madsen? Is it Mark Madsen? Oh yeah, it is Mark Madsen.

Speaker 2: 50:43

Yeah, I had a brain fart there. But you know they've got Stojakovic coming over from Stanford. There's interesting names. I mean Hugh Vandeway, I think he's the son of Kiki, but you know Matty Sissoko, pretty big, tough guy, coming over from Michigan State. You've got gosh who is it? You know Stephan Marbury II coming over. Just, they're playing better under Madsen.

Speaker 2: 51:15

So they're going to be a little bit of a challenge as well in the early season schedule. But I think getting through those first six games, I think it's likely that the Trojans could be undefeated. Heading to the Accuture Classic where they're playing St Mary's in the first game and then either Arizona State or New Mexico, there's a good chance the Trojans could have a very nice record. Heading into conference play. Oregon is the opener December 4th in Galen and Oregon's a very tough team. But just looking over the course of the schedule, going to be a challenge. But luckily the Big Ten is a very deep conference and if USC can finish in the top half of the Big Ten which I think based on what I've seen so far seems likely then they're going to go to the tournament.

Speaker 2: 52:03

So I'm going to predict USC is probably going to get to. I think they'll get to. 20 wins Probably going to get to. I think they'll get to 20 wins and I think they'll. And I think because you know I think they're going to start out. You know in the preseason that you know they could start out. You know, you know 10 and 11 and one or nine and two or whatever that is, and then you're looking at I think you just go break even in the big 10, you're going to get to 20 wins and you're going to have enough quality wins to get to the tournament.

Speaker 1: 52:41

Yeah, I think the scheduling was very intentional and I think it was smart, like neutral side games against some, some big names, uh, and some road games too. Uh, didn't, didn't go very well and Enfield at that time said like well, you know, we were kind of incorporating some big new pieces and that maybe not, not what's, it wasn't the best choice. So I don't know if Musselman heard that specifically or he just in his experience knew like that's not a good idea.

Speaker 1: 53:12

There's zero true road games um and you know there's a few kind of power conference teams, uh, but I think it's just enough to give like a little bit of credibility or a little bit of a push to the team without kind of setting them up for failure. The meat of the schedule is going to be the big 10, for sure, and I I am pretty confident they're going to finish in the upper half of the conference.

Speaker 3: 53:35

Yeah, mark, a couple of things that stick out to me and maybe, just using football as a guide and, just, you know, tailor it to basketball, I see three road trips where we have back-to-back road games that are, you know, out of our time zone. At Indiana and at Illinois is one trip, at Northwestern and Purdue is another, and then at Maryland and at Rutgers. Now, the powers that be were very kind to give us, like you know, pairings that were geographically close. Yeah, I'm just really curious, and there is typically a I don't know if this is good or bad Feels good there is a two day, two days between each of those games, like at Indiana is on the 8th and then Illinois is on the 11th. So it's not like travel is going to be too crazy. I'm just curious. You know, at Illinois, at Purdue, particularly the second half of those road trips could be really tough.

Speaker 2: 54:30

I'm just curious to see how that that's gonna lay out well, one thing we don't know yet is is what the travel schedule will be like. Right, because when you have so example, they go to indiana on january 8th, yeah, and then the next, but it's a 4 pm game, uh, pacific time, right, uh, and then it's so, it's so. It's a, I think, indiana, I think that's central time zone right there, but I could be wrong. But they do, they come back, no, you can't do that.

Speaker 3: 55:04

There's no way.

Speaker 1: 55:05

No. So Musselman. He said in one of the interviews after practice I don't remember which one it is, but he goes to NFL teams and he's been talking like the Rams and saying so what's your guys' travel schedule like? And this is something he's super conscious of in terms of maximizing the recovery ability of the team while traveling the team while traveling?

Speaker 2: 55:29

Well, yeah, but. But so, if, well, if, if USC comes to Indiana on January 8th and is there, you know, the night of the eighth, all of January 9th, all of January 10th, and then you play Illinois on a Saturday at at noon, you're, you're acclimated at that point. If you're staying there, you're pretty well acclimated for the second game. Right? Yeah, I would hope so. Right, because you're there a while.

Speaker 3: 56:03

Yeah, you're leaving a great point. If you're driving from Bloomington to Champaign, you can probably make like Clark Griswold and see like the world's fourth biggest ball of yarn Right to Champagne.

Speaker 2: 56:12

you can probably make like Clark Griswold and see like the world's fourth biggest ball of yarn. Right, right, right, exactly, exactly. So, no, but it's a, it's a. Well, the reason why I question I don't know for sure is because you know there are, you know there are issues with. You know there are academic issues, issues, and I know that the conferences talked about having a like a satellite uh school set up in the area to help with academics and maybe that's going to enable because you, because you look, you know, you look at that schedule and so if you leave, you know, so january 8th is the game and january 11th is a game on the road. So you're leaving on january 7th, right, yeah, and so you're gone 7th, 8th, 9th, 10, 11, you're gone five days.

Speaker 3: 56:57

yeah, yeah, you know that's the favorite by not making it like the pack 12, just two and three days, but the two and four days probably. Yeah, I want to see how that works out right.

Speaker 2: 57:07

So you have. You have three five-day road trips for the season basically. So you have three five-day road trips and I guess if you plan it right, you can work out all the academic aspects. Really, you know, it's almost like you really minimize the. You know there will be the issue for that first game, just like you would have for any road trip, but really you really minimize it for that second game.

Speaker 2: 57:39

So maybe that's, uh, although the second games and all those schedules are all like the toughest teams, right. So it's like illinois is the second game, purdue's the second game. Uh, rutgers is going to be a bear this year. They're the second game when USC goes to Maryland and Rutgers. So that you know cause they have those two outstanding freshmen who are going to be, you know, top 10 picks, probably so.

Speaker 2: 58:03

But yeah, it looks it's an interesting schedule. It looks to be not as horrific from a travel schedule, a travel aspect, as you might fear. And then there probably will be some advantages for when those teams come out to the West Coast, of course, right. So playing Michigan and playing Wisconsin and Iowa, those teams are going to have to deal with the same issue as well. So hopefully it balances out and USC can again having that experience. You're not bringing too many wide-eyed freshmen trying to get acclimated on those trips. You have guys who've been on these trips who are very business-like and who seem like they can handle the stress and all the things that go into a long road trip.

Speaker 3: 58:56

On the topic of wide-eyed freshmen, the other thing that sticks out to me, and just to go again across sports a little bit, there's a crazy almost two-week break from hosting Southern to hosting Michigan, December 22nd to January 4th.

Speaker 3: 59:11

I wonder if they kind of do like the old Pete Carroll trick of like treat that as a bi-week and really force feed a lot of freshmen in practice, cause you've got like a lot of a lot of runway in that time. I'd be interested to know if, if, if, if Sky sees that basically after that, immediately after that Southern game, if there's like a change in in, change in usage or just whatever happens at practice. I don't know, I do numbers, I don't watch practice.

Speaker 1: 59:35

That will be interesting to see I don't know if they're going to give the players some time to go home for Christmas or something. I think that's a possibility. But in terms of the travel and the wear and tear on the body, I think Musk is very conscious of that right now, because these practices, these guys run. They run and run and run they were running full court in their drills.

Speaker 1: 59:59

They're all full court and then he'll blow the whistle and they have to run a suicide or lines or whatever you know after all of that and he said something to the team last time that was like, uh, he called out one player and he's like you're kind of lollygagging it and he said guys, push yourself right now and trust that you'll be fresh for the game. Don't try to save yourself right now. So he's trying to build this stamina up on the front end.

Speaker 2: 1:00:30

Yeah, no, absolutely. And you know, one other aspect is that a lot of these guys will, when they go to some of these games in the Big Ten, will be able to have friends and family go to the games. You know St Thomas was born in Omaha, nebraska, and you know Terrence Williams, of course, is from Clinton, maryland, and he went to Michigan, right. And then you have Rashaun Agee from Chicago, and so so you really have, you know, josh Cohen's from Lyncroft, New Jersey. He's an East Coast guy.

Speaker 2: 1:01:06

So we go out to Maryland and Rutgers. We go out to Maryland and Rutgers and and, and I think in some cases, if it's a weekend, they might be able to, you know, hang out a bit with their family, see their friends and maybe, so I think, I think they'll, they'll probably get a nice break for Christmas to catch up on things and rest. But but yeah, I think the schedule isn't as bad as as one would think, uh, going into a new conference, so hopefully, uh, it all works out and uh, usc can, can set a great standard uh, in their first season under coach Musselman. You guys have any closing thoughts as we, um, as we close out this podcast and and uh, get ready for uh the game on Monday against Chattanooga.

Speaker 1: 1:01:54

Well, I'll just say quickly that one thing I'm actually really excited for in this pre-conference schedule is just to see the depth of this team, because you know the rotation was kind of shrunken down against the Gonzaga game. You know, a few guys got in for a couple minutes but it was kind of a core of like seven or eight guys and I think we're going to see a lot. We're going to see Horner again, a lot of minutes in some of these games, you know, and Pope and Slacker and actually.

Speaker 1: 1:02:24

Patton probably coming back in, maybe a month or so.

Speaker 2: 1:02:27

And I think that'll be really fun to see all these different players on the floor.

Speaker 3: 1:02:31

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that. I was curious about that. I think that the it seemed like about halfway through when I was watching I thought, okay, he clearly tightened up the rotation because he wants to win this one and this wasn't just like a let's just, let's figure things out and lose by 30 here. Yeah, so to that point I was hoping exactly what you threw out there, so that's hopeful for me, I'm looking forward to see that too, and we're looking forward to seeing a lot of you out there at Galen.

Speaker 2: 1:03:00

Both me and Sky will be there. Mark, you have some conflicts so you won't be able to come out. Everyone's got to get their MustBust shirt. I know, sky, I still haven't ordered yours. I apologize, mark, did you get yours?

Speaker 3: 1:03:14

Are you going to do that? Hey, I think I sent it to you. No, buddy, I didn't get it yet. Oh, you didn't. Ah, geez.

Speaker 2: 1:03:19

Okay, I apologize for that, but listen, for all of you who haven't got your must-bust shirt, be sure to go on the website, order it, wear it to Galen and we can all see each other and know what's what. So that'll be great to get the uscbasketballcom and Dunk City Podcast contingent out there, because we went to the exhibition game earlier, we did see some must-bust shirts and some great friends from the website were there. It was great to meet all of you. For those of you who don't know about the Dunk City podcast, you can, of course, listen to us on all the streaming platforms. So if you get a chance to like, review, subscribe, do all those things. It would be much appreciated.

Speaker 2: 1:04:06

Of course, we also have a YouTube channel. Sky's getting lots of great videos from practice that we're putting up and we'll have more of those as the season goes on, and so, on behalf of Sky and Mark, appreciate you listening and we will see you probably sometime late next week after the first two games, and we'll preview the following two games, and we hope you enjoyed the show and we'll see you next time. Fight on everyone.

Speaker 1: 1:04:35

Fight on, fight on you.