Speaker 1: 0:26

All right, happy holidays, everyone from the Dunk City podcast brought to you by USCbasketballcom. I'm Chris Houston here. We're going to have Sky Liam on in just a second. We have a very special holiday episode of the Dunk City podcast. We are here with USC strength and conditioning coach for basketball, andre Carrera, or rather, our co-host, sky Liam, is here. He is going to be taking the reins of this episode and talking to Andre to get into all kinds of great details about his plans for USC basketball. A little background. Andre Carrera was named USC's men's basketball director of sports performance by Eric Musselman on May 16th 2024. He comes to USC after serving as the strength and conditioning coach for the Santa Cruz Warriors in the NBA G League and he also worked with the Golden State Warriors since January of 2021. This is an excellent and informative interview by Sky with Andre and let's turn it right over to him.

Speaker 2: 1:20

All right, welcome to the Dunk City podcast. I am Sky Liam and a funny story here literally ran into Andre Carrera in the halls of Galen, physically ran into him and I knew we had to get him on the podcast because, well, one thing fans have really liked about this team is the way the players look physically on the court and how they're performing athletically, and it's also an interest of mine, having studied kinesiology at USC. So, andre, welcome to the Dunk City Podcast.

Speaker 3: 1:56

Yeah, man, thanks for having me and apologize again for bumping into you, but it worked out.

Speaker 2: 2:04

So the first thing I want to ask is just um, what is your history as a player? Cause I don't know anything about that, but you look like a basketball player. I mean, when I was in high school, like my strength coach was a white haired guy who did like partial reps on bench press. You know you can. I think you could dunk. So tell us what your playing experience was.

Speaker 3: 2:26

Yeah, to be honest, I was obsessed with basketball since I was probably in second or third grade. I'm from the Bay Area, so I started hearing about the Warriors, watching how athletic they were. You know they weren't winning games, but they had high flyers, particularly Jason Richardson. So I was like I want to be just like him. Um. So I started, you know, trying to mimic his game. Although I wasn't jumping high, I tried to have a lot of the traits that he had, um.

Speaker 3: 2:49

And then when I got into high school you know, vince Carter was one of my idols, jason Richardson, like I mentioned, um, I wanted to be a high flyer. I didn't know how, and I actually got made fun of um my freshman year. I'll never forget this moment. It was traumatizing, which ultimately led to me being a strength coach. All my teammates were trying to touch the backboard right and I was. I didn't start puberty until I was like 18. It felt like, you know, I was like a late bloomer, um. So I was 5'4, one of the shortest people on my team my freshman year, high school, and they were all touching the backboard.

Speaker 3: 3:17

I tried to hit it and I couldn't hit it, and I couldn't hit it and I couldn't hit it and I tried and I I got so upset and they were making fun of me telling me I'm not athletic, that I can't jump, and that was like. That affected me so much that I begged my parents to buy me a weight set. They just bought me a barbell and some some cheap weights and I used milk cartons as my rack and I started training. I read my first book my freshman year of high school. What book was that? Called jump attack. It's called jump attack by Tim Grover, michael Jordan coach.

Speaker 3: 3:43

Yeah, and it was just kind of like an introduction. Looking back on it, it's just like traditional training with a little bit of contrast stuff, a little bit of plyometrics involved. I even had jump soles as well. If you guys have ever used those, I remember those. I tried everything to become explosive, but I was so committed to it. Every single day I would train and then by the time I was a sophomore in high school, I was 5'10", so I grew six inches, which helped, but I was dunking. I was the first one dunking on my team and everybody that made fun of me had nothing to say. They actually all asked me to train them. So I became like the team trainer and then that's when the obsession really started. I saw the results of Provoke for myself and then I saw how people bought it and they wanted to learn from me and I was able to teach them and I became really passionate about that. And then it continued on.

Speaker 3: 4:27

I played high school basketball and me being able to be athletic the most athletic on my team, I realized how much I helped my game Right. I became a slasher. It gets a whole easier Just able to guard people well, and then that ultimately led me to play in a four year university, sonoma State, right. With that being said, a lot of the training I did was traditional and there was a lot of things I was neglecting. I developed asymmetries, I wasn't training tissues appropriately. The list can go on and on. I don't want to spend too much time on it, but I'll just give you a quick summary. Although I was able to jump really high and run really fast, when I went to change direction whether it be in the frontal plane, so like side to side, or rotational, I was struggling. So because of my movement conversations and my movement limitations, I ended up getting hurt. And I got hurt my junior year of college. I had one surgery after another, after another after another and I didn't get to even play my senior year of college basketball.

Speaker 3: 5:20

It took me six years to get healthy again. I went and saw this Padres doctor, stanford doctor, chargers doctor I went to like six different ones there was this really like well-known world specialist hip surgeon and they all wrote me off. Each doctor told me just, you know, don't play sports anymore, don't run anymore. You know, at this rate, you know you're not going to be able to walk, you know, in the next 15 years or so, so just be more sedentary. And that pissed me off.

Speaker 3: 5:45

So at the same time I was in my my curriculum for my graduate degree and I was determined to figure out what was wrong with me and to learn about the body simultaneously. So I was, like I remember, in the labs dissecting cadavers and looking why do I feel pain? Where's the pain coming from? And I was literally looking at tissue, like looking at fascia, looking at muscle, looking at origin, searching action of tissue and trying to understand what causing, what is causing my pain and how to how I can resolve it. So I would do case studies on myself consistently and then just learning and being inquisitive and trying to problem solve, taking what works, extracting what doesn't.

Speaker 3: 6:19

In my programming I became healthy, you know, by the time I was 28, 29 years old, I had the highest vertical I ever had. I felt healthy to play basketball all the time. 42 inches is the highest I ever reached. But that was after I finished playing college basketball. So my training evolved. But you know, at the time I was really upset that I couldn't play college basketball anymore. Then my career was over, but it was a blessing in disguise, looking back on it. So that's a quick somewhat quick summary of like. Yes, I played basketball and this is how it led to me becoming a performance coach.

Speaker 2: 6:48

I mean, you know, I I used to compete uh, martial arts was my sport and I also have had surgeries and you. Actually it's a silver lining, like you said, you learn so much more through that injury because you learn about rehab, you learn about the structures of the body and I think that probably is helping you tremendously with the work you're doing now with athletes, yeah, so you can probably speak on that because you're a Kines major, you know.

Speaker 3: 7:14

So you have a familiar. I was a minor, but Okay, just enough. Yeah, you did some work.

Speaker 2: 7:21

So okay, so you were you studying exercise science in undergrad, only in grad, or like? What was the path then? Kind of post playing career? How did that funnel towards what you're doing now?

Speaker 3: 7:34

yeah. So what I say? I'm so blessed because from like a 10 year old, I knew that I wanted to train nba players. I didn't know specifically what I wanted to do, but I knew that I wanted to do it right and it's just like, uh, maybe like work them out. And then, as I started to learn more about the body and I started, when I started training specifically like that's when I was like I want to train NBA players and that was my goal in as clear as day, since I was like 13, 14 years old, freshman year of high school. So I just followed that path. Fortunately, I knew exactly what I wanted.

Speaker 3: 8:03

Undergrad was pre-physical therapy, graduate was more concentrated, so it's poor performance within kinesiology, but I was like set on being a trainer and nothing else really. You know, I would say, even when I was doing my physical therapy undergrad, you know all the prerequisites to go to PT school. I didn't really want to be in the sedentary or like I want to say sedentary. It's like a complacent environment in my mind. A lot of times I wouldn't say in all cases, but when I would go to a PT clinic it didn't didn't feel abrasive enough. I didn't feel like I was creating the environment that was challenging enough to provoke results Right. So it wasn't as like fulfilling when I would go there, whether I'd be shadowing or rehabbing myself.

Speaker 3: 8:41

So after my first surgery I literally did all my rehab. I didn't go to PT. So I ended up having 11 surgeries. So 10 surgeries I did PT all on my own and that was just me like looking up what to do. I don't know if that was the best thing to do at the time because I wouldn't say that my knowledge now is equivalent to what it was back then. So some things I probably missed in the rehab but I wanted to solve it on my own and so I was denied going to PT and that kind of led me to just being sure, I want to be a strength coach, not just physical therapist.

Speaker 2: 9:07

So then, when did you? I know you worked at like Point Loma Nazarene and eventually, of course, you were working with the Warriors organization Tell us about what that was like, maybe working with some college players but then getting with professional players.

Speaker 3: 9:22

Yeah, absolutely so yeah knowing that I wanted to do this, I would reach out to different NBA strength coaches, nfl strength coaches this is kind of how it started. So I knew I wanted to be in the NBA, but I knew I needed a network, right? So I sent a physical letter in the mail to every training facility for every NBA team and every NFL team. That was before I did any internships, right. And then, fortunately, I got in contact with probably 20% 30% of the coaches, right With that. After that happened, I reached out to him and followed up like hey, what do you guys suggest? If this is my ultimate goal, what are the steps you think I should take? And overall, the contestants was like do an internship, get a graduate degree, do these certifications, do this and that? And I, I was very receptive and I did all those things. I got all the certifications.

Speaker 3: 10:06

I started my first internship at this place called Exos, which is like an NFL combine training facility, and then I worked at a performance private performance place called Velocity. From there I went to Point Loma, nazarene, where I graduated from Right and I was a strength coach, assistant, assistant, performance director. So I had nine teams and I was working just throughout the day, every single day, which is great, a lot of hands-on experience. But with my goal being to be at the professional level, I felt like I wouldn't get the respect working at Division II. So I needed to make a sacrifice right, be more relevant or have experience at a higher-profile school or whatever right. Then I resigned there and I went to University of Washington to intern for a summer with football and they were just number four in the country they just lost to Alabama, I believe, in the national championship semifinal. So they were relevant and they had credibility. So I went and did that for the summer and then I got different opportunities to work at small schools, which I denied, and the reasoning is because I was so poor.

Speaker 3: 11:06

I made a huge sacrifice to move to Seattle. I lived in my car just to make it work because I had a vision that this would lead to something great. So I finished the internship and I got these little major opportunities making $2,000 a month, and I was like man, I'm already in so much debt from doing this. I just have to take a chance and just go back to San Diego, save some money and hope that something comes from this Right. So during the time I was in San Diego. I was working at a college, part time teaching classes, which actually helps me a lot as a strength coach because I have the experience as a teacher Right. But I saved money, had a private business and I was just posting on social media nonstop because now I had indirect contact with all these coaches in my network so they were seeing that I knew what I was talking about, I was staying relevant and I was continuing to reach out. So I was in San Diego for like nine months and then I got my first job Right.

Speaker 3: 11:50

I got a. I became an assistant strength coach at the New York Knicks, who I'd been in contact for like three years straight and didn't get a chance. Didn't get a chance and then finally I broke through, got the job. I was there for my contract the duration of the season, so it was 11 months and then I got an opportunity to work in Charlotte. So I moved to North Carolina.

Speaker 3: 12:10

My role was to work with Charlotte Hornets and the Greensboro Swarm and I was there for a year and a half, a year and four months and like 10 months in COVID hit Right. So then I was sent back home. We do our remote work, zoom meetings and then, following that, I was there for the next four or five months. Then the Warriors called me and I went to the Warriors and now the Warriors continuously from January 2021 until May of this year, right for the last four years, and then now I'm here at USC and I'm happy to elaborate on any of my experiences, whatever questions you have. But yeah, that's kind of the summarized version of my path to getting to where I'm at now.

Speaker 2: 12:47

Well, I want to ask you because I know you have a very interesting story about the first time you met Eric Musselman and also that you guys have so many connections with the. Warriors and you were in San Diego for a period of time, so tell us about the first time that you met Musselman in San Diego for a period of time.

Speaker 3: 13:05

So tell us about the first time that you met Muscleman. Yeah, man, I swear. Like you know, throughout my life you just pray for opportunities and some things don't make sense. I remember just certain jobs I was applying for. I wasn't getting it. I was devastated, like I'm better than that candidate, I should have this job, you know. And it didn't make sense. And then some things that you think very, that are very insignificant, end up being very significant.

Speaker 3: 13:33

So I was on christmas break for like two days. And when was this? What'd you say? When was this? 2022? Okay, I was on christmas break with the warriors.

Speaker 3: 13:36

I had like two days off, two days off, and I love going to san diego, so I go there any chance I give. So I was there and I was training some kids because I lived there for five years. So so anytime I go home, these kids want to train. I'm like, yeah, let's do it, let's train some kids along the boardwalk, in the sand along Mission Beach area. Right, and I just we just finished the session. Coincidentally we're sitting along the end of the boardwalk, like on these ledges, and Coach Musselman rides by with his son and I'm like I'm telling this kid like, oh, that's the coach for Arkansas, you know. And then he rides by and I'm like go Hogs. And he's like, yeah, go Hogs. You know, he rides by and I know that there's like it's a dead end to the boardwalk. He's gonna come back and thinking about it. I'm like man, I have to do more than just say hi to him, you know, like our players in the.

Speaker 3: 14:18

Warriors right. Who played?

Speaker 1: 14:22

for.

Speaker 3: 14:22

Arkansas. So, like you know, it'd be funny if I FaceTime Moses Moody and then I stop Coach Musselman and I'd be like hey, look and surprise him, right with Mo on the phone. So I was FaceTiming Moses Moody and he wasn't answering, but it was like the call was still going on. So I'm like coach and I show him warriors and he listens, he waits, moses doesn't answer, but that starts like a conversation, right. Like, oh, I'm with the warriors. I've been here for a while.

Speaker 3: 14:51

I trained moses, I trained caleb mar and jimmy with, like the martin twins, right, the list of players like pretty extensive, and then even dusty hannes, who is at arkansas all the time didn't play for him, but it's always around. So I have like this network of people who know him, you know. So then we're like, oh, this is cool, nice to meet you, you know. And he was a Warriors coach as well, right, so people that I work with within the organization know him very well. So, anyways, that was great. We talked like 10 minutes, nice seeing you, no expectations, right. It ends there, right, and I think that's the last time I saw him. And then, like two years go by, right, and I was actively trying to get into the college setting and I just don't know how to navigate. My network was the NBA, so I didn't know the right steps to take. Last year I went to the Final Four on my own dime with my free time, tried to network and meet people, and I just didn't do it right.

Speaker 3: 15:34

So this season I was very proactive on following all the coaching moves, trying to anticipate which positions would open up and where I wanted to live. And then, when Coach Musselman when the rumors came out that he was going to come to USC, I got in contact with people here at USC to try to find out if the strength coach was leaving or going. Once I found out that he was leaving, I went straight to my general manager with the Warriors and I was like, look, I love it here at this organization, Like this is my dream job. I want to be a Warriors coach since I was a little kid, right, but I think my you know, I'm starting to feel like my new dream is to go into the college setting, and particularly USC. I don't know if it's open or not, but would you mind telling Coach Musselman that I'm interested?

Speaker 3: 16:14

This is before I knew it was open. They called Musselman 10 minutes later, Coach, 10 minutes later, within that 10 minutes, they talked to our president of the team, Kirk Lacob, who is the owner's son, and he told Kirk that I was a candidate now. So then the waiting game began and then the interview started eventually. But that's kind of how it transpired. So that one moment in San Diego which I decided to capitalize on, not knowing it would lead to. This was what ultimately, probably got me the job probably got me the job.

Speaker 2: 16:45

I think there's been a lot of steps in your process where you had kind of this plan and you followed it up, no matter what the risk was whether it's, you know, being embarrassed or someone ignoring you or nothing coming of it. But you took all these different chances and planted all these seeds and now you're here in LA, USC. What were some of the first things that you did when you got to USC? I mean, there probably was not even a roster. I don't know what point you came on board.

Speaker 3: 17:09

Yeah. I mean when.

Speaker 2: 17:11

I got hired.

Speaker 3: 17:11

We were still formulating the roster, but by the time I started my first day everybody had been decided on and then they showed up like a week later. So I had like a few days of work days here to prepare. You know, NBA and college are very different, right? Just in terms of like the demands of the schedule, right?

Speaker 3: 17:30

The frequency of games is so much in the NBA. The veterans in the NBA. They're usually gone a lot of the off season, so you can't get really good training cycles and you come into USC when summer was starting. That gave me an opportunity to have four months of like legit training, which I was so excited about.

Speaker 3: 17:49

So when the players showed up, I had this extensive plan right. But before I can actually implement anything, I need to see, I need to learn about them, not only like their character, anything like, but but their injury history, their playing history, their movement strategies, their strengths, deficits. So I had this whole battery of testing and I swear I lived at this arena in the same office probably for from 7 am to 9 or 10 pm for the first two weeks of my job, just getting this extensive evaluation of every single person and understanding as much as I can about them, just problem solving what's wrong, where do things fit? How it would help them, you know, creating corrective programs, individualized programs, identifying if they're more of like a fast twitch or elastic athlete or a strength-based athlete, and then categorizing them and determining what the best plan of action is, not only in a short period of time but over a long period of time.

Speaker 1: 18:37

So it was great.

Speaker 3: 18:41

I'm just kind of summarizing that yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:43

What are, what are a few of the tests that you might be giving these athletes to screen them for their movement patterns? And then, beyond that, I'm assuming you're doing like initial max I don't know if you're doing max strength testing, max speed and vertical and what does that entail?

Speaker 3: 19:03

So the first thing I thing I do, I mean, and I've created this screening my screening process is very extensive but it's evolved over the years of being a coach and just seeing different environments, seeing what works doesn't work, have my own opinions, but ultimately trying to find something that gives me like objective answers right, rather than just like something subjective, like, oh, you need this because I think you know I want all everything, anything I say, I want it to be like certain, right, and my evaluation process has changed because of those things.

Speaker 3: 19:29

So initially, the first thing they do is they do a segment of this thing called the FMS functional movement screen. Right, there's seven tests from that, but I only use four of them. Right, I use those four and ultimately what this does is it gives you an idea of how they move in a parasympathetic environment. Right, if I told you, put your hands overhead, do your lowest squat, you know, hold the position at the bottom, come up back upright, right, it's not very demanding, it's calm right, so have them do tests like that in more of a parasympathetic environment right and then, once I'm done with all those sympathetic environment, yeah, my fault.

Speaker 3: 19:59

Like it's an environment that's not very demanding, right, like not like not very high force, not very fast, not overwhelming, that can provoke potential changes. It's like get in that position, take your time, show me where you can go, get in and out, you know calm and then I have them do similar, very similar tests in a very demanding environment, more of like a fight or flight, a sympathetic environment. So like, do this as fast as you can, change direction, as fast as you can, like intensity, right. And then I look at the discrepancy how do you move when there's a task at hand that's very demanding and how do you move when there's a task at hand that's very calm? Right?

Speaker 1: 20:32

And a lot of times you'll see discrepancies.

Speaker 3: 20:35

The degree of discrepancy is for me to interpret and determine how to develop a plan of action.

Speaker 3: 20:40

You know to resolve that right, because if you have a mass say, if I do a squat, for instance and I'm pretty symmetrical then I'll tell you to do a squat, jump the same movement, but just fast, with more effort. And now you're shifting most of your weight to your right leg, your foot turns outwards, your foot pronates right, like those are things that I'd be a little bit concerning with right. Why did it change and how much did it change? So that's two steps of the process. I look at those things. I get discrepancies. I see okay, how can I resolve them? First of all, I say why is it happening? Identify where the issues are coming from, and then how to resolve them.

Speaker 1: 21:10

And then on top of that.

Speaker 3: 21:11

I go into a bunch of different movement tests, whether it be on force plates, which tests, like there are plates you stand on, you could do jumps, you could do single leg balance. You do a lot of things and it gives me so many metrics and I could choose from this massive list of metrics of things that I think are important to show me what you're good at. Are you having a hard time breaking? Are you having a hard time creating explosive effort? How long does it take you to break? Are you shifting more to your right, side, left? There's so many things. I'm just giving you quick little samples From there.

Speaker 3: 21:38

I do Nordic board testing, which is how strong is your posterior chain, specifically the hamstrings, right? And then I'll do something called the overcoming test. Right, I want to see how strong you are with max effort. Like, if I tell you to pull through something, try to break chains away, how much force can you put through the ground to break these chains away? Right, so I'm seeing a max strength test.

Speaker 3: 21:57

Then I'll go to dynamic testing. So I'll do a series of change of direction. Whether I'm having to run forward fast, you can backpedal backwards fast, as you can change direction side to side with rotation. I have them do all these tests and look at these baseline numbers, right. These same tests I've done over, you know, the years of being a strength coach, so I'm I'm able to use the normative, normative data to see where they rank amongst high level players, right, so I'm seeing, okay, what are the deficits you have compared to an nba player. That's where I think some my nba experience is very useful, because I have reference points, right, not only just the experience from that environment, but I know the actual data and the tests we use in the tech.

Speaker 2: 22:36

So it's very helpful um, but yeah, once I do all that then I prescribed for active training programs.

Speaker 3: 22:41

Each athlete does so. Say if you did a squat jump and you shifted your weight to your right side and you had a slight rotation right, typically if you have rotation, your squat jump is probably coming from the first point of contact, which is your foot, and it probably is like an ankle discrepancy in terms of range of motion. Right, if you bend one ankle more than the other, your body is naturally going to shift forward or backwards. Right, if you hurt your knee, your knee's not bending one more than the other. You create a rotary component. Right, say, if one growing is tight or one hip is really tight, like you know, the outer portion of the abductors right, you strain. I don't know what the history can be, but let's just say that's the problem. Once you see that that's going to create a lateral pelvic displacement, your hip might go left or right, which would mean you'd load one leg more than the other. You compare that with the history of ankle sprains or whatever. Right Now you have a rotary component, lateral pelvic tilt. Your foot collapses, which can lead to knee pain medially, like.

Speaker 3: 23:29

The list goes on and on. But it's a chain. Everything makes sense. So I look at those things, I create a corrective program to resolve that, to make it more symmetrical and neutral, right? So you're distributing force equivalently, and then from there we work on training programs. You're categorized into different groups. So although we may train as a team in one session like, say, my training block is 9 to 10 or 9 to 11, you have your own assigned program and you're categorized into what type of athlete you are along with your correctives, along with your mobility, along with the quality you need to enhance hangs.

Speaker 2: 24:01

So, uh, take us through a little bit. What is the process of starting from that corrective phase and then going to like a, a phase whereby the player is ready to compete tomorrow? You know, do you go through like a general strength portion to a power portion? Or what is that process of different periods of these workouts?

Speaker 3: 24:25

yeah, so the first thing I need to do is look at the macro, macro cycle, so like a whole yearly plan. When are we going to start seeing constraints, you know, on my part in the trainer? When do I have to make changes in their programming, in my decision making of their loading and their volume? Right, the intensity of work versus the volume of their work, how many reps you're doing, how long is the workout, how demanding it is cognitively? Right? I have to start considering those things once I know the schedule right. So say, if we have summer training which is consistent Monday through Friday, you know, more limited to the eight hours a week that we can have together, right, that's pretty consistent. So I can train and do some really good planning and exposures, right. But if I'll talk about now, when we're in season, we have games that vary Some games every two days, some games every three days. Some weeks you have two games, some weeks you have one game, some weeks you have three games, like this week, right? So my training is going to be ever-changing based on those demands, because those demands are the priority. I have to remember that I'm an extension of the coaching staff and I have to help influence making the best decisions. Right, it's going to lead to the most success in the court, right?

Speaker 3: 25:28

So when I first got here, we had four months of straight training, so I was able to do like this linear periodization model, meaning that over time, I was able to slowly, incrementally increase. Imagine like walking up staircases right Over four months, right. With that being said, there was no constraints that could influence my ability to make changes, right? So for me it was. I had complete freedom, right? What changes do I want to make first? So, being that I got all these new guys and they have the most asymmetries or movement discrepancies that they'll ever have, right, because when I started working with them those were resolved. Or movement discrepancies that they'll ever have, right, because when you start working with them, those would resolve.

Speaker 3: 26:05

So I note those things and in the first six weeks of training, we went through a tempo training which is like slow time, under tension, slow movements through muscle actions, to develop a fundamental base your oxidative capacity, your ability to withstand efforts repeatedly right, kind of like your capacity. And then reorienting tissue right, making sure the body's moving fluidly. You know, tissue is designed to slide back and forth, you know, and there may be restrictions. Maybe you hurt your knee, maybe you got a bone bruise or a quad bruise or whatever, and now there's like scar tissue, fascial adhesions that are lined up and restricting movement, right. So it's for me to an influence your ability to glide freely to you, to for you to improve as a mover, right. Once I go through the those things to help you improve as a mover and eliminate asymmetries, then we can progress to more strength-based stuff, then ultimately progress to speed, strength and power, right. But if I were to give you the power exposure, when you have these asymmetries or underlying issues, you're going to train the same pathway that is incorrect, right that I've identified. So I have to resolve the problem first, kind kind of like a reset, right, I'm resetting, make sure everything looks good, then we can start working. So it has to be in a certain sequence.

Speaker 3: 27:08

Fortunately, like I said, I came at the beginning of summer, so I had all that time to make these changes in the appropriate manner. Versus in the NBA, you're throwing these guys sometimes on a 10 day contract or, like you know, a two-way where they can get cut, waved. Maybe they like this summer they were at the Olympics all summer right, a lot of these athletes, they come back. I didn't have a summer to train with them, so I may identify these issues and I may not be able to make the changes. So I have to look at it. There's just much more constraints than NBA, I would say. In college I have the ability to provoke serious changes because I have time, with no limitations or restrictions.

Speaker 2: 27:51

So I'm not sure what your awareness level of this is, but over the past several years kind of, I would say, the fan sentiment around the general type of players that have been at USC was that they are kind of long, lean, quick, but not very strong, maybe getting pushed around in the post and, you know, looking forward towards joining the big 10. This is something that some fans were thinking about. Obviously, we have a new coaching staff Now, we have a new roster and the. We have a new roster and the team, just using the eye test, looks a lot different than past years. You have guys obviously some are older, more mature, but also even the younger players. They're looking stronger than the players that have been kind of the prototype USC type of model in the previous years. What is your philosophy on balancing the amount of strength a player might need to battle in the post or for rebounds, the amount of muscle mass that player is going to optimally carry, versus having that ability to move and be agile?

Speaker 3: 29:04

Yeah, great question.

Speaker 3: 29:05

So, I get asked that very often throughout my whole life, even to this point. You know like, and so the best way I can explain it is you know I want to make the best athlete possible, right? So I need to consider okay, people think what will make it. So let's just talk about, like, say, a post player. For instance, I can use a post or a point guard. Typically a post player is going to experience the most amount of contact versus any player because they're bumping and bruising. They have a small space to work with, so that's going to provoke more contact you don't create spacing, which creates less movement.

Speaker 3: 29:36

If they're in a restricted area, you're more likely to hit people. Additionally, you're close to the hoop, so there's an objective task. You want to score right, so you're looking to get to the hoop, which provokes more contact. So naturally, a post player is going to be stronger and have more bracing ability than a point guard or someone who plays in the wing because they use more elusive qualities, right.

Speaker 3: 29:56

If you look at, just for reference, if you look at Nikola Jokic and you look at Kyrie Irving right, nikola Jokic, pretty muscle-bound, doesn't necessarily look like it because he has a lot of body fat right, which ultimately hinders his athleticism. But, with that being said, nikola Jokic is big and strong, looks for contact. You think of Kyrie Irving skinny, kind of wiry, very elusive, avoids contact, right. So you think of these, these tendencies athletes need, and you got to think positionally how can I make them better, right? Simultaneously, I have to think what's coach musk's playing style like? Right? Are we going to be a fast-paced tempo team? Are we going to be a bumping, bruising, half course set team? I need to know, because that's going to influence the results. I try to provoke to ultimately make us a better basketball team, right. But with that being said, every basketball player needs to improve athleticism. And how can I do that? Right?

Speaker 3: 30:44

you got to think of your body mass versus your strength ratio, like, or your ability to produce force, right. Say, if you weigh 200 pounds and the total force you can produce is I don't know, I'll just use pounds for reference 800 pounds, right, that's 400 pound difference. Or four times the amount of force, right, the the bigger the margins ultimately, the more athletic you are right. If you weigh this amount and you can produce this amount, which is significantly more, you're going to be more athletic, right? So if I weigh this much and I can only produce such a little bit more than that, I'm not going to be elusive. I'm not going to be able to create force, put people out of the way, right? People think, oh, sometimes the center needs to have fat mass on them. Well, fat actually does nothing for you. It's just weight, right, you don't use it as strength. It's actually inflammatory in itself. Fat molecules are inflammatory, which is ultimately going to influence knee, ankle joint pain, systemic inflammation, right, which you don't want, right? So if you think of our center, for instance, josh Cohen, right, he came in, has a history of having a really good touch, good score on the hoop, right, but I know that our offense is going to be a lot faster. He's playing the big 10. If he's not the tallest, most athletic guy, I got to make him elusive. Change direction right, so he can get these open shots. So he's lost over 36 pounds of just fat mass alone, right, while simultaneously getting a lot stronger. He's gained muscle mass right. So size right To help him use the actual muscle size to push people out of the way. But the most important thing is his strength, especially relative to his body. So while his fat mass is decreasing this amount, he's losing this much weight and fat mass and gaining so much more strength. The margins have increased significantly. The more margins for any type of athlete, the better they become at their sport. Right, simple as jumping. If I take off to do a one foot jump, if I weigh less, I'm popping off the ground. If I'm heavier, I stay on the ground longer. Right, the gravity is constant. Your time on the ground the shorter the better. So teaching them not only how to have strength to be stronger, gain size not necessarily too much size, because too much mass slows you down right, you should gain mass slowly.

Speaker 3: 32:36

But your ability to understand. You know kinesthetic awareness, meaning, like your awareness in space. What kind of biomechanics do you have to have in each position. How will that help you, right? If I'm doing like a Eurostep and I'm standing upright and my shoulder is not outside the opposite hip, my center of mass is shifted over. I'm not going to be that good at the Eurostep, right? So teaching these guys? On top of that, if I do a Eurostep and my shoulder is far away from my body and I reach out far, my risk of injury skyrockets. Right?

Speaker 3: 33:03

You look at a lot of NBA players who've done those type of moves or try to seal on their foot as far away from their center of mass. Ankle sprains, acl is very common, right? So you have to think of those things too. So for me, a big thing in my coaching is to teach them how to have awareness and space, how to know what positions they need to be in. That's going to provoke the best results. Right, muscles take turns. They work in. You know, one muscle fires, another foot muscle relaxes, and when I get in a certain position, it's going to reciprocate if you have a short lever versus a long lever.

Speaker 3: 33:29

A lot of things to consider. And if you think, how can I optimize my movement strategy, I gotta think of positional advantages, right? So I teach them tricks like you want to be a better defender? This is the trick you need to do. You see a person do this. This is the trick you need to do. This how you can win. It's like giving secrets away, um, but yeah, there's a lot of things people don't consider, but as a strength coach who played basketball still plays I think that's a huge advantage because I understand the game and understand like hmm, when you know, growing up, I had a lens for the sport, like, okay, as a player, like skill development, right now that I'm in the performance sector, I have a lens as a coach, like more of a clinician.

Speaker 3: 34:02

I say, okay, I used to do this move on a person. I will actually have so much more success with this move if I do this with my body right so I'm able to incorporate these things, kind of bridging the gap. But yeah, that's a long-winded answer to your question as being in the big 10 this season.

Speaker 2: 34:19

Has that influenced your approach insofar as just anticipating a more physical play style? Maybe these guys need more mass or anything like that right absolutely because I think, of our roster size ultimately right.

Speaker 3: 34:33

I say we're pretty big in, you know, in the one through the three, and then our four and fives are not necessarily as big. Like I say in the big 10. We rank pretty pretty In comparison. If you go one through three, then you go four and five. I wouldn't say we're at the top tier, like we are with our guards, and I wouldn't say we're extremely athletic in comparison to some of the Big Ten bigs, right, or as strong as some Big Ten bigs. So, with that being said, I understood that the traits we need to establish with our bigs to influence our success in the court. So we may not have a traditional type big, right, that's fine. But do we have a big that fits our system or is able to adhere to the things we want to accomplish? So that's kind of what's provoking, leading to some of the results we've provoked.

Speaker 2: 35:16

Okay, that makes sense sense. Yeah, one thing that has caught some fans eyes, whether you know this or not, but so far early on the season, is the warm-ups that you have the players. It's much more specific than the general kind of dynamic stretching leg lifts and people may be doing those too, but you know kind of we've seen the post players harness to each other, doing some work and lots of other types of things. Can you walk us through what those warm ups are and what the philosophy behind it is?

Speaker 3: 35:51

Yeah, I appreciate that. That's cool. I didn't know that people were really paying attention to that, so that's that's kind of gratifying to hear. There's actually a lot that you guys don't see behind the scenes, like the lifting on game days or the things they do before they actually touch the court. So I'm telling you that because I need to elaborate on, like, the reasoning behind everything, right? So, before they actually touch the court, these guys come into the weight room and they do a mobility sequence.

Speaker 3: 36:13

Ultimately, I'm trying to get their body primed and you know that's my goal, my main intention, right? So in order to do that, I need to give them positional exposure. So they'll come and they'll do a sequence of, like, using a mobility stick and they'll get into deep ranges of motion. You know there's three planes of motion and movement. There's a sagittal plane, which is everything that is forward and backwards. There's a frontal plane, which is everything side to side, and there's a transverse plane, which is everything with rotation the transverse plane, which is everything with rotation. Right? So my thought process in provoking them to be prepared for sport is to give them exposure to all three demands which they'll see on the court, right? So I have them do a mobility sequence which covers all three planes of motion. That keeps their core temperature up, right, creating more pliability, meaning their muscles are able to contract and expand easier. Joints are lubricated, blood is flowing right, you do that. And then they'll do a preparatory sequence where they do very explosive movements or they'll do very overwhelming movements, right, and my best analogy is think of an athlete like a stadium. Right, if I want to make the brightest lights possible for showtime, I need to turn the lights on as much as possible. Their electrical system needs to be firing, okay, so I give them these exposures and there are instances when they get a little fatigued from it, which I'm trying to get as well. Right, because I want their first fatigue exposure, power exposure, all these things to be with me in a controlled environment before they get on the court, right, so I do all these things, whatever it is. It changes at all times because I'm constantly trying to check boxes Then they transition to the court and then, when they do the court, we're close to pregame.

Speaker 3: 37:45

They do a thing with bands where they use a partner. Right, so, using a band, which is an accommodating resistance which, when it gets pulled, you get pulled back right and to me, stretch a band, it reciprocates right. Then you use a partner which is also pulling you right and they're, more than anything, working on positional awareness, right. So they'll do like a deceleration acceleration pattern, you know, forward and backwards, with good joint angles. I influence, you know I have them focus on ankle, knee, hip, right, three joints to lower body core stiffness, transferring energy. Then they'll go sideways, side to side movements. How can I work on breaking? How can I create propulsive effort sideways Right, defensive, defensive, defensive, specifically relating stuff, right, and then they'll go to a viper sequence.

Speaker 3: 38:25

A viper is like a cylindrical tube that's weighted, um that you can do a lot of stuff relative to movement. So I'll have them go through those three planes of movement that I talked about sagittal, frontal and transverse at very high speed relative to game. So these, these tubes that they're using, are weighing between 16 pounds and 26 pounds, right, um, because they're in kilograms and that's just how they're made. But you'll, I'll use them and I'll have them move as fast as they can think of it being a basketball, but a little bit heavier.

Speaker 3: 38:53

You know, like relative to you ever seen like a uh batter in the at bat, the batter's box, and they have a baseball band. They're doing practice swings but during their practice they have like these tubes along the the bat to make it weighted. Donut baseball bat. And they're doing practice swings but during their practice swings they have like these tubes along the bat to make it weighted. They're doing that as like a stimulus, right, like to provoke like more muscle recruitment moving at higher speeds. When they take these things off, now the bat's really light. They get more velocity on the bat, more power output. You know, when you contact with the ball the ball goes further, right, your body's prepared for it. So ultimately I do all these things with these guys for a reason. It's very structured and it's methodical in the whole process, because I ultimately want to prepare for the game Right, make them as prepared as possible.

Speaker 1: 39:37

Cool yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:39

And you know it's fun to watch too for the fans who want a little bit of an inside scoop into that. You know it's fun to watch too for the fans who want a little bit of an inside scoop into that. So we're getting ready to kind of wrap this up. But I wanted to ask you something you alluded to already, which was how the training changes in season. Are you still trying to improve these qualities such as quickness or power? Are you trying to only maintain? What's the approach there?

Speaker 3: 40:03

Yeah, man, every day I'm trying to only maintain. Uh, what's the approach there? Yeah, man, every day, um, I'm trying to make improvements. I mean, I think a traditional thought process is like when you're training in season, you lose your gains, or if you can maintain, you're happy. That's not my philosophy whatsoever, right? The biggest concern that people have with doing that that's why they do maintenance stuff, or their approach is maintenance or just get through a season is because they don't want to be sore for games or fatigue for games, right? So that's where it's very important to understand the game schedule, the opportunity to like. I have this whole. I know what we're training on March 13th 2024. I know what we're doing already, right, because I've looked at the schedule. I understand the practice demands, I've looked at the travel schedule. I know all this. I have to consider this. I have to know Right. And if I know that very well, then I can understand when I can give exposures to certain things based on what I'm trying to accomplish, right.

Speaker 1: 40:52

So, for instance, and things are ever changing.

Speaker 3: 40:55

Maybe I have a lift scheduled on March 13, 2024, 2025, whatever. But you know, a guy that used to play high minutes is now playing low minutes.

Speaker 3: 41:06

So his lift is a little bit different or his exposure a little bit different. Right, like, I have to prepare them at all times. So, for instance, like right now okay, we just did body pod testing so we determined body fat and muscle mass, right, while the whole team is dropping in body fat which is what our goal is and gaining muscle mass simultaneously. Right, because the frequency of games increase and there's some guys with high minutes versus low minutes, so the high minute guys are not amongst them. Like, there's three or four of them that are not gaining muscle mass as quickly as a low minute guys, and the reason for that is because a low minute guys, I'm able to give them more exposure because I know that they're not going to play 30 minutes. Right? Last thing I want to do is give someone who plays 35 minutes massive exposure in the weight room, have them tired on court or fatigued or missing shots because their legs are fried. I'm not going to ever let that happen. That is like a huge issue, right? So, with that being said, we get these results, we review the results and we create, we revise our plan. Right, so that I've noticed that guys are not getting as much muscle mass for high in high minutes. We revised their lifting schedule. So now these higher minute guys are doing lifts on game days, right, and it's like micro dosing you give them a small exposure more consistently versus giving them a high exposure inconsistently right, that's what we were doing right, which is great, which is done in the past, but because of not the demands they're facing now, we have to constantly review and revise, review and revise, and I'm always testing people. Like I probably do three to five different tests every single week on these guys, whether it be force plate jumps, nordic board testing, speed testing.

Speaker 3: 42:36

I'm always trying to get answers and let the answers tell me something like okay, what does this say? What do I need to change? Right, and I'm always, I'm always looking at that and, like, as a coach, I have to be understanding, I have to know that, like, some things I do are going to be phenomenal and like, great job, right, but other things I do, they might not work the way I assume. It's up for me to look at the data and then be like okay, what do I need to change? Don't have an ego. Ego, be receptive to learning and making changes. Nothing that I do is absolute right.

Speaker 3: 43:07

Like if I have a person do a goblet squat, you know like a sumo goblet squat or something, for instance, right, and they're saying, oh, my growing is actually sore because we did that the other day. Okay, maybe your growing is an underprepared tissue that's why I had that kind of response. Or maybe the exercise we did we're not doing consistently enough, so it provoked more soreness. So, with that being said and their feedback from them, I can make these changes in order to influence, maybe increasing their growing strength or maybe decreasing the exposure or the intensity of the exposure of the exercise. So I'm always talking, I'm always in communication with the guys how do you feel? Did you like that? If there's anything you change, would you change it it? And they're very open with communicating with me and telling me exactly what they feel like we have such a good relationship, so much trust in the weight room, and that's I'd say that's the biggest thing from the NBA to college.

Speaker 3: 43:52

Like I feel like I have the biggest impact. It's like night and day. Like, yes, I was very close to some NBA players, but I'm not as close to anybody as I am in here. Man, I've even created like side projects about like character and how to be a better man. Like I'm trying to prepare you for your future, not just basketball, and I think those things are challenging. Right, you need to have people who challenge in your life and I try to challenge these guys all the time, just to be the best they can be. Right, I'm honest.

Speaker 3: 44:15

Sometimes I tell them things they don't want to hear. We get mad, we get arguments with each other. But look like the other day I got an argument with a player and within five minutes we were great and I told him look, this is where I'm coming from. I hope you understand and it was my best interest to tell you what I told you. You might not like to hear it. He's like you know what? That's a good point. You're right. I'm like thank you for being receptive, because I know nobody likes to be told what they're doing, wrong, right, but me having those conversations with them. That was actually an opportunity for us to gain more trust in each other, right, right, he's like dang. This guy's keeping real with me.

Speaker 3: 44:42

When a lot of these guys are applauding or cheered on or not told exactly what they need to hear, that's something I say. I respect a ton about the coaching staff Very transparent, right. Like, whether you like everything I tell you or not, you'll respect it and you'll know that, like it's coming from my heart, I want you to succeed. Right, and a lot of times, like in my years of growing up, I didn't know how to interpret that Right, so I want to be someone who can be very clear and direct and know that it's like from my heart, I have the best interest for you and this, I think this will be really good for you.

Speaker 2: 45:12

You know that's so great to hear and I think, aside from your clearly expansive knowledge on exercise science, I think that's one of the big reasons why you're here, because I went to a couple of practices and I noticed that every coach is doing a little bit of everything. Any kind of assistant coach at any time might jump in and give strategy tips on a game plan. Team managers are in there mixing it up in drills, defending and stuff, and so for you to be able to take that psychological approach, that emotional approach, to help develop the players aside from the physical aspect, I think that's really, really special and it helps the success of the team. I want to ask you one follow-up really quickly about what you just said, because you know Eric Musselman mentioned in an interview maybe about a month ago everyone was talking about the defense and he mentioned lateral quickness, looking for lateral quickness in players, and actually the defense has got a lot better over the past four games. So was that something you were able to address in the training?

Speaker 3: 46:20

So I mean very clear communication. Coaches like this is something where we have a deficit at. We knew we would have a deficit at when we got the roster right. We're like man, we need things to work on. Like I said, I have normative data. I could look at our speeds and I'm like we're going to struggle at this. We knew, defensively, it would be hard to rebound, right, it would be hard to stay on guards, so we worked through all summer, right.

Speaker 3: 46:41

But coaches like this is like a very important quality we need to change. So I want you to focus on this. With that being said, I look at my plan and I make revisions. Okay, now we have different emphasis in our training plans, right. So now, since, like, I think our defense has improved significantly because there's things that I was able to change on the fly and make changes pretty quickly, right, which he mentioned it maybe a month, month and a half ago, right, and so, in order to be a good defender, there's a couple of things you want to consider, right. Okay, of course, your attentiveness, your effort, right, but I'm talking about, like, in terms of biomechanics, right, to be a good defender, you want to always abduct, meaning you want to push off the outside leg Anytime you slide. So if I'm sliding to my left, for instance for all the people listening if I'm sliding to my left, my right leg needs to be my propulsive leg. That is determining my power output and how far I'll go right.

Speaker 1: 47:34

My left leg is going to determine my distance.

Speaker 3: 47:37

That's my stride length. Okay, so if I try to, if I push off as hard as I can with my right leg, that's going to determine my distance and my power. My Try to, if I push off as hard as I can with my right leg, that's going to determine my distance and my power. My left leg is going to land first right Because I'm hopping from one leg to the other. That is going to determine my distance. So that alone, if you don't have good mobility in your hips and your adductors, your groin complex cannot lengthen right. That means when you take your next step, you won't go very far. Right, so you can be fast as you want, but if you're not covering distance, the defender will blow by you, right? So I had to consider how do I improve their ability to cover distance and do it at a high rate, and how powerful can they do it?

Speaker 3: 48:13

So, with that being said, I started to do different training styles focusing on improving their mobility of their hips and their ability to create propulsive efforts. You know, and a lot of it, I'd say a lot of these guys had to improve their kinesthetic awareness, their positional stuff that I talked about earlier. Right, and we drilled it and drilled it, and drilled it, and drilled it, and I think just that alone over the last month has made significant improvements on their ability to play defense right. Um, and then just cause the emphasis like this is important, you guys better be good at defense or else right, and just like putting that pressure on them makes them more disciplined, makes them try harder, right, defense is an effort thing too, right? So a culmination of all those things influences our success on court in that manner at least in defensive playing right.

Speaker 2: 48:55

Yeah, definitely, and as fans you know who maybe get to watch the post-game pressers, we hear potentially what has been adjusted strategy-wise on something like defense. But it's really great to hear this kind of more behind-the-scenes approach from you about the other adjustments that have been made and I don't know, I dare say it may be working. I want to finish up here with a little rapid-fire kind of series of questions, just about you know top performers on the team. First question who are a few of the highest leapers? You're the one who has all the numbers. You don't have to quote the numbers but who are some of?

Speaker 2: 49:37

the highest leapers on the team.

Speaker 3: 49:39

Okay.

Speaker 2: 49:41

I'd say Isaiah.

Speaker 3: 49:41

Elohim, desmond Claude, jalen Shelley those are the top three. And, matter of fact, isaiah, elohim and Desmond Claude, since they got here has increased Isaiah three inches on his vertical, which is insane because you're already above 40, plus you add three inches to that. Then Desmond Claude is now above a 40-inch vertical. He started below 40. I don't want to give specifics out, but yeah, he's getting four inches in the vertical. Jalen Shelley is also getting two inches. But one fascinating thing about Jalen Shelley is that you know he's a very elastic mover and that's like a whole different conversation. Right which his deficits are? His strength.

Speaker 1: 50:19

You know, comparative to his body when he creates force.

Speaker 3: 50:22

When he came came here, he couldn't really absorb it, so it's like imagine.

Speaker 3: 50:25

A basketball pumped up right, you deflate some air. You bounce the basketball it doesn't bounce as high. That's an analogy to generally show his body right or a lot of these, especially college athletes in particular, especially freshmen right. So you bounce the basketball it's a little deflated, doesn't bounce back up right. So what I've done although he's only gained two inches, he's put on the most amount of muscle mass on the team by far Right, because developmental players are freshmen. So he's gained the most amount of muscle mass while simultaneously increasing two inches of vertical Right. So he now weighs way more than he did. So now when you jump up high you have to carry that new weight with you, which ultimately would decrease your ability to gain inches. Right. Versus Desmond Isaiah had stayed the same weight. That's why the margins increased. That's why he's 4 inches, 3 inches, but Jalen Shelley's ability to absorb force and reciprocate it means he's more like a pumped-up basketball.

Speaker 3: 51:15

So if you continue to do this at this time next year, instead of 2 inches you should see 6 to 7 inches right. If I have a whole year to train with him, because now he's completely pumped up so he'll pop off the ground. I had to understand that first and make these changes as he gains muscle mass he's going to see like a. The trajectory will be like this like a slope upwards in weight because his muscle mass is increasing Weight, weight, weight, weight gains, gains, gains, gains, gains. Then he's going to taper out and the slope of the mountain will decrease, be more baseline. Once he hits baseline, that's when the margin increases significantly and then he real vertical starts hitting. So he should be in his mid-40s by the time this year, next year, if he trains consistently.

Speaker 2: 51:52

Now are we talking standing vertical or running. We do max approach.

Speaker 3: 51:57

Yeah, we do both actually because those tests give me answers. So we'll do a standing like no feet movement. You yank down, you reach up to the sky, you smack and then we'll do an approach. But the NBA combine makes you do it within 15 feet.

Speaker 3: 52:08

So you really can't get that much momentum, but you do get some additional momentum, and those two tests give me answers too. I see how well you jump without movement. I see how well you jump with movement, and that's for me to decipher and then make training plans based off that right, based on discrepancies.

Speaker 2: 52:23

One thing that I just want to compliment you on, as well as the staff, is that your ties to the NBA. I mean just the fact that even in this cycle of training, you're almost preparing them for the combine. I think that really stands out about the program at USC. And, of course, muscleman with all his NBA experience same deal, okay.

Speaker 3: 52:40

So continuing this vein of questioning who are some of the fastest players if we're talking like a three-quarter court sprint. Yeah, I mean. Typically you see correlations with explosiveness. You know, if your vertical explosiveness is vertical, you usually translate to horizontal. There's a lot of studies that show, like in the NFL Combine, 40-yard dash. Those are also most often the highest jumpers, Like I was at the Combine this year. Reed Shepard got 42 inches and I look at him. He doesn't have to look like he's going to have a 42-inch vertical right.

Speaker 1: 53:12

So I remember standing there testing.

Speaker 3: 53:14

I see his results on the board and I'm like, ooh, someone messed up. That was my assumption. I literally believe that I was talking the other side of the court doing three quarters sprint and he got like one of the highest in the combine, like three seconds or 2.9 or something like that, and I'm like he's got a 42 inch vertical Because he's able to translate the effort in the horizontal vector versus the vertical vector. So a lot of the guys I mentioned Isaiah Desmond, I'd say one of our walk-ons, jonah Kalai those are fastest guys on our team and those are usually pretty elastic athletes that will have stiffness in one instance, you know one leg jumper is going to be a faster athlete than a two leg jumper right Because they practice short time on the ground.

Speaker 2: 53:54

Okay, well, that was not a good question then, cause it's basically the same answer. What about, like a shuttle runner, like an agility type time? You know who would be some of the players that have really caught your attention?

Speaker 3: 54:04

Yeah, okay. So we literally did that. Once Coach Musselman was saying we need to improve defense capabilities, I'm saying, okay, if we need to improve defense as a team, I need to figure out who's good at creating power, who's good at absorbing forces and reciprocating right. What if the ball handler is changing direction left to right, right Counter moves Can our defenders stay on ball right? So I created a new test which will show me that this test I literally made up, based on understanding biomechanics and force right so I created two different tests and I combined them together and then I was able to find who's the best.

Speaker 3: 54:37

Who would be the best on ball? Defender versus not right. Who do I want to keep off ball, which I don't want to necessarily share too much of that, but, but I would say our best defenders on the team would be Saint, would be Isaiah, would be Wesley Yates.

Speaker 2: 54:53

That's awesome, and you know some of those things to pass the eye test. I mean just as someone watching the games as well. Okay, who are some of the strongest players just in terms of poundage that they're able to lift?

Speaker 3: 55:07

Wesley Yates.

Speaker 2: 55:08

Really Like. I'm talking about comparing him to a 6'10 guy or something. It's all relative strength.

Speaker 3: 55:14

Even without relative strength, he's extremely strong. He's strong. A lot of NBA guys yeah, he's a freak, yeah.

Speaker 1: 55:19

But he.

Speaker 3: 55:20

I'll say that he works so hard. I'm never. I never once have second guessed. If I left the weight room for some reason, which I wouldn't if I ever left and I was like, do the workout, I know that he'd go as hard as he can you know, because ultimately it's like it's discomfort, right?

Speaker 3: 55:37

If you want to provoke the most changes, you have to make the most challenging environment. The more challenging, the more your body hates it, the more it's going to want to try to adapt, right? So specific adaptation, you know to impose demands, the principle that you know the harder you go, the more changes you make, the more consistent you are with hard efforts, the more changes you make, right? So some of these, some people I wouldn't say these guys, I'm saying people in general don't train hard enough to create an environment that's going to make these changes. So I say Wesley Yates always goes hard as he can. I can never question that and that's why he's so strong historically and now. And yeah, he's just built different.

Speaker 1: 56:14

That's awesome, there's a few guys that go really hard though.

Speaker 3: 56:17

I would say like there's not a significant drop-off and even with our team, like I would say in general, our team is very disciplined and very committed to this.

Speaker 2: 56:27

So final question here continuing this series, but this is one totally out of the blue. It has been said that Michael Jordan ran a four, three, eight, 40. Do you believe that?

Speaker 3: 56:40

Four, three, eight. Yeah, I can believe that. I believe that that's not super fast.

Speaker 2: 56:46

Yeah, so I guess we have some really fast players on our team then.

Speaker 1: 56:48

I mean that's 4-3-8. Michael Jordan.

Speaker 2: 56:51

Yeah, oh, okay, I thought it was Michael Jordan, but that's like maybe one of the top times at like an NFL combine, you know? Yeah, I mean all the time.

Speaker 3: 56:58

That was just a couple years ago, I think.

Speaker 2: 57:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 57:06

So I mean like there's a lot of wide receivers in the NFL combine or cornerbacks that are in 4-3s, 4-4s, 4-5s. Even some quarterbacks are getting 4-5s now.

Speaker 1: 57:14

So, looking at how athletic Michael Jordan was, I'm like that doesn't seem like out of the ordinary.

Speaker 2: 57:26

you know he had like a 45 inch vertical like that's going to translate. You know, okay, wow, we finally settled that then. Okay, andre, it was a real pleasure uh getting so in depth uh with you about your own career and now what you brought to the table at USC, I mean I think as as people watching the games.

Speaker 2: 57:40

You know we look at the potential of this and that and, uh, you know, when we look at a good performance, okay, we know that's the ceiling of the team. But I feel even more confident now just hearing how you're working so hard to prepare the team and we really appreciate you coming on today.

Speaker 3: 57:55

Yeah, I appreciate you having me man and great questions and it's good to hear a lot of feedback that you have. You know I'm not really engaged on what fans are saying, Like I don't even know where to look, to be honest. Uscbasketballcom. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 58:07

I don't know, that's where to look.

Speaker 3: 58:10

Okay, I'm on it. But yeah like maybe I don't look enough, you know, but it's good to hear from you. Things that you heard and things that you're seeing Kind of is, like you know, reassuring that things, things we're doing are right. You know, we're very intentional here. I think our coaching staff is phenomenal. Everybody's so disciplined and diligent and this is a great environment. I'm super happy to be here, so I'm excited about the future.

Speaker 2: 58:31

Yeah, thank you. I'm excited too, all right, so we really appreciate it. Signing off for the Dunk City Podcast I'm Sky Liam and fight on.