The Dunk City Podcast
USCBasketball.com's Chris Huston and Mark Backstrom co-host the Dunk City Podcast, the only podcast that's devoted solely to USC basketball. Weekly during the season, intermittent during the offseason, the DCP is the "podcast of record" for Trojan hoops, featuring inside information, special guests and expert analysis.
The Dunk City Podcast
Big Bad Wolf
USC's 4-game win streak came to a screeching halt with an 85-74 loss vs. Michigan in Galen Center. The difference? Wolverines forward Danny Wolf, who had 21 points, 13 boards and 6 blocks. Chris, Mark and Sky discuss this game plus the upcoming matchups at Indiana and Illinois. We close the show with a Women of Troy update with Cece Clay ahead of a big showdown vs. Maryland.
The Dunk City Podcast is the podcast of record for the USC basketball community. You can find all episodes at DunkCityPod.com, USCBasketball.com or on Apple Music, Spotify and wherever you stream podcasts. Look for clips on YouTube and TikTok as well. Please like, follow, listen and review. Contact us at USCBasketball.com@gmail.com.
Welcome to the Dunk City Podcast. Trojans fundraising. Usc is on to the Sweet 16 for the first time since 2000. All right, welcome back to the Dunk City Podcast brought to you by uscbasketballcom. Chris Houston here with Mark Backstrom and Sky Liam. The Trojans fell to the Michigan Wolverines on Saturday by 11 points. The score was 85 to 74. Of course, the Trojans before that had a four game win streak that included a 24 point smashing of the Huskies at Washington, followed by three fairly comfortable wins versus Montana State, csun and Southern in Galen Center, comfortable wins versus Montana State, csun and Southern in Galen Center. So there was definitely I think that there is an upward trend as far as USC's quality of play. We continue to see some pretty good play coming over when the competition moved up a bit with Michigan coming to town. But, as we saw, the game was kind of hard fought but Michigan too much in the end. What do you guys think of this outcome? What was your take on the game? Sky, you want to start?
Speaker 2:You know, I kind of live and die with these games, probably, I'm sure, as much as any fan. And you're watching the game, at the beginning you're thinking maybe USC has a real chance, and then they kind of slip behind. I thought it was over, you know, a couple minutes into the second half and then they really fought. You know, I don't know how many of you know this Trojan folklore, but the term fight on and the name Trojans is actually coined in a loss, but the term fight on and the name Trojans is actually coined in a loss. So after the game I had a kind of an unfamiliar feeling, which was that was a good game.
Speaker 2:And it's just kind of was you know, a little bit like the Oregon game, but almost USC was kind of hanging in there, even more than the Oregon game I felt with the last couple of minutes going. They have really had a chance and it's just kind of hanging in there even more than the Oregon game, I felt. Even with the last couple minutes going they have really had a chance. It's just kind of interesting. I've now shifted to like. It's kind of enjoyable and interesting to watch this team this year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's a great point. It was very similar to the Oregon game in that USC was pretty much in it the whole way. Mark your impressions.
Speaker 4:The one thing that stands out to me first is, you know, at the start of the season we just had, we didn't even have a rotation.
Speaker 4:Muzz was just throwing guys all over the place. Not only has the rotation tightened up, but I think the one thing that's become clear to me is who the most important player or the most irreplaceable player is, and I think it's going to be very specific in this game. To me, it's not just Desmond Claude, it's Desmond Claude during the game, when Abo is not having a great game, we just we needed him so much and even though he turned the ball over five times turnover percentage at 19%, which is brutal, but it just seemed without him, we just we just could not make the offense go. In that last segment of the game, um, once he fouled out, just just, we kind of just just just stumbled and couldn't get out of our own way on the offensive end at times, yeah, you know, my, my large picture, kind of a global look at what's going on, is that the team has definitely stabilized from a, from a sense of the rotations are pretty stable now.
Speaker 1:The quality of play is within a less sort of um, extreme, uh, spectrum now, uh, we're getting to the point where there's a better level of consistency. We're not seeing the level of defensive breakdowns that we saw during some stretches, so the defense is sort of stabilized a bit. Things are still, uh, you know, the offense is still pretty much contingent upon guys making shots. Uh, there was a few things. You know, this game was interesting. Well, I mean, they're all interesting, but uh, kind of the point that you're that you brought up sky, which is that you can, I don't think there's.
Speaker 1:You know, people talk about, oh, there's no moral victories and blah, blah, blah. But if you're just looking at a team and looking at it as a work in progress, there's certainly no shame to looking at a game and saying, okay, usc played well or usc didn't play well and they just didn't win, or they did win. Like you can just assess the game and enjoy the game for what it was, uh, despite the outcome, and I think this is kind of one of those games where there was certainly uh, there wasn't any kind of like uh, major faux pas on on from USC's perspective. You know, you look at the um, a lot of the stats in the game were, there wasn't any kind of a major discrepancy. You know, uh, michigan had these two huge bigs but the USC was out rebounded by one. Uh, the assists were the same. Um, the uh, you know uh the the shooting.
Speaker 1:Uh, shooting for USC was not as good, especially from the three point line, and there were some struggles at the free throw line, but it wasn't like there was a major discrepancy in turnovers or fouls. It was pretty much a similarly matched up game, pretty much a similarly matched up game. And it really boiled down to just a few stretches in the game, and there's three of them. One, I think, probably the most. There's the two obvious stretches the stretch where Michigan goes up by 15 to start the second half, and then the sprint at the end for their finish. But I think the most underrated part of the game was the very end of the first half where USC is up 38-36. And just bam bam, michigan hits two three-pointers and it's 42-38 at half. And that just. You know.
Speaker 1:Michigan hit 10 three-pointers in the first half, including, you know, their first five baskets were three-pointers. So if there was an anomaly in the game, that was it. But then the 13-2 run to start the second half got to the 16-minute mark and it was 55-40. And then USC comes back, goes ahead by two with seven and a half minutes left and we're thinking, okay, this is, this is going to be one of those games where it's just back and forth to the end, except michigan goes on a 22 9 run to finish things out, and I don't think there was necessarily any kind of like mess up on usc of things. Losing Desmond Claude was obviously a huge factor, but to me it looked like Michigan just, in the end, just had more going for them and took advantage of their size to just make sure they, you know, secure the victory.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was really impressed watching Wolf.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know, you know, muscleman said in the post game he's going to be in the nba and that's exactly what I thought watching him, because he was a lot smoother and I wouldn't say he necessarily is super athletic but he's definitely mobile, you know, and he has some, some guard skills yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I think in isolation he's a stretch four, right, you know, I think in isolation, if he didn't have that other big, you know, the seven-footer next to him, maybe he's not as effective in that game, right, but when you have that guy playing the five, who's seven foot and just, you know, wide, as a house, you know him playing that stretch four position being an effective stretch for a guy who can go out and shoot the three, I mean this guy, you know Wolf, was ridiculous 21 points, 13 rebounds, seven assists, six blocks, two steals, right, there's just, there was just no matchup for USC in that game for Wolfe to handle Wolfe right, there was just nobody you could put on him at that size.
Speaker 1:And of course he disrupted things on both ends and really helped take away the bread and butter of USC's best player, desmond Claude, which is really just getting to the rim. And Desmond was not able to get to the rim like he normally does in that game.
Speaker 4:Yeah, the one.
Speaker 3:thing you know, that.
Speaker 4:that's the reason I'm really not taking this loss too tough, just like you, chris is. You know, michigan's top three shot nine to 17 from three. And this just reminds me to last year when I wrote that column about, obviously, the racehorse and just once obviously got headed. He was done and just like our team last year, and this team got headed twice Plus in the context of that horrible game at Maples last year where Stanford just just rained threes on us the whole game. We kind of got a one to punch there and this, this team, you know, took a few punches and came back. That's why it just, you know, I, of course you want to win this game, but this is an existential, existential crisis of like, oh my God, what is this team, you know? Are we? You know, it's just, it's, it's very, very, very different. Losses are never fun, but it's a it's a very different flavor.
Speaker 1:Certainly playing at a pretty good level. Usc is cause I think Michigan is a pretty good team. I mean they had the two bigs, the Mari Burnett it was a pretty good player against us last night or a couple of nights ago 16 points. He was three of five from three point land. Of course we tried to recruit theari Burnett under the previous staff and so Michigan just has a pretty good rotation going. And of course Dusty Mays is a really high quality coach, so I think that he probably has. He has more to work with and certainly there were some just like there are going to be a lot of times in the schedule a lot of horrible matchup problems for USC with all these bigs Sky.
Speaker 2:I want to be clear too that I don't think it's embracing a defeatist mentality to say this was a good game, a fun game to watch, even in a loss. Usc are really true underdogs this year and it's not like USC football where a lot of people root against them across the country kind of like the Lakers and Dodgers because they've had so much success. Like USC basketball is almost like an anti-brand, insofar as that, you know, they don't have that tradition that the football side has and these are all like, for the most part, four and five year players who've worked really hard their entire careers and they're at this mid-major school and it's kind of just like fun to watch this new must-bust process evolve, because it's really evolving this season. I mean to be able to hang in there despite all of those made threes, despite that size, to have multiple leads in the game. That's kind of insane when we consider what the defense was a month ago and how we were talking about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, usc was right there throughout most of the game, let the game get away from them a couple times, eventually couldn't come back at the end and, and you know, really losing Claude at that point was a factor. But it's interesting you brought up football because right now the basketball team looks a little bit like the football team last year, in the sense that a lot of close games they're right there at the end, have a chance to win against some quality teams and they're not yet to the point where they can put that together. I think there's a little bit more hope that some of these games could turn out more favorably as the season goes on, considering we're not dealing with too many true freshmen. We're dealing with guys who are veterans, who are sort of proven and who, as they mesh with each other and as they learn to play together, as they continue to get better in that regard, then I think that they're going to be able to sneak a couple of these types of wins out down the road. The Trojans are now 9-5. I think we're about right where we thought, um, about right where we thought they would be.
Speaker 1:Uh, when we predicted the season, there were some bright spots in the game. Uh, you know, beyond the loss, certainly it was good to see uh, wesley Yates had a very explosive game. Uh, st Thomas, um, uh didn't have an incredible game, but he was, he was. You know he had some good timely baskets. But I think not having Terrence Williams and then having to depend on Chibuzu Abo to be really the only consistent three point threat is, in the end, it was in the end just not enough to overcome.
Speaker 4:Agree, you know it's. It's interesting, yates is, is, is, is. I don't want to say he's an all or nothing kind of guy, but it just seems like either it's going to be a game where you can, you can trust him on three pointers, or you really don't want him to. Um, and we, I think we got, we got, you know, the better version of him from three points today, or from three from three point land against Michigan. It just couldn't capitalize on it.
Speaker 4:I mean, you know, I had him as our most most efficient player aside from Cohen on offense, and actually Patton was pretty efficient too. It's interesting, coming out of the break, how much, how much Patton stepped up to I mentioned that a few times like who was going to step up, and it seemed like Patton stepped up to I mentioned that a few times, like who was going to step up, and it seemed like, even though he was was it just me or was, was, was. He wasn't the first or second guy off the bench, if I remember, but once he kind of showed that he came to play, he, he logged a what? 28 minutes um, 14 points.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was good. No, I, I, he. There's a lot of upside there with Patton, especially cause, you're looking, he brings you some some shot blocking and some shot altering um elements to his game. You know, one thing I just realized just now is, as you guys were talking about, uh, as you were talking about Wesley Yates, I figured out what what his, um, his shooting motion is and I've been trying to figure out the best way to describe it. And then I can only say did you ever play paper football? You know that part where you have to line up the field goal and you put the and you put the foot, the paper football, put the triangle on the on the edge of the table and you got to flick it. That's what he's doing. That's what he's doing when he shoots, when he shoots his three. He's setting up his paper football field goal and he's flicking it. That's what it looks like Not bad.
Speaker 4:I'm sure this is going to go wherever this guy's at, since he's not of our age, but I thought you were going to say, maybe Jim Furyk. I don't know if you're a golf fan at all. Do you remember Jim Furyk's awesome swing?
Speaker 1:No, that's even older than me.
Speaker 4:It was described as somebody wrestling an octopus in a phone booth. So imagine the version of that. It is quirky and a little herky-jerky, but it works and the dude is fearless. You know, as we've said. One other thing too when we were in the preseason, didn't I think it was Coach Conroy or maybe Pondexter who said or maybe it was actually Muss who said that Kevin Patton, he led the, didn't he lead the conference in like steals per minute or like a conference?
Speaker 1:play, or something like that. Yeah, no, he was an outstanding defensive player in the West Coast Conference last year.
Speaker 4:I can see the shot blocking but as a steals guy, that's nuts for a guy that size.
Speaker 1:Well, he gets. He gets his hands in the lane tips balls.
Speaker 1:And I think, and I think I know how it used to be, generally, if you tip a ball and it leads to a steal, usually, often the steal is attributed to the tipper Gotcha, not necessarily the guy who who gets the secures the ball. Um, so, yeah, so I think you know. Looking at at the team, there are some bright spots. Wesley eights bright spots. Uh, as a bright spot, kevin Patton jr Is a bright spot. Um, oh, I know who was the first guy off the bench. It was Bryce Pope. He came in, played three minutes. Um, that's kind of an interesting development. What do you think about that sky of Bryce Pope, you know, sticking his chest out there and getting into the mix?
Speaker 2:I think he's clearly earned some more minutes in practice. You know, if it was probably against a team with less size, he might have gotten more burn, but obviously the size of Kevin Patton was a better matchup against Michigan. I think Pope's in, he's, you know, more solidly in the rotation than he was, like a month ago, but still it's a little bit challenging for him because it kind of feels like he's in that spot where he's going to get a couple minutes. If he makes a shot he might get more and you know it's a really tough place to be as a player. But what I will say about him because I've seen this in practice and then I've noticed it like on the court he is one of the guys who literally tries to do what muscleman says to a tee.
Speaker 2:Like you know, muscleman at one point in a practice made a big deal about uh, the celtics, the nba champions, huddle up and put their arms around each other after every basket. If the nba champions do it, you guys can do it. And I see pope after every basket. He's like beckoning to his teammates, he's like initiating this. He's calling out dude's names and you know, and that's all you can do. And so he. He's earned some more time through that and hopefully we'll see some big moments from him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know it's you talk about, um, the Celtics. You know, looking at Pope in the game. I look at him and he looks like just one of those. If you go, look at those old photographs of the garden where it's like fourth quarter and the guy's coming off the court and Auerbach's hugging him and he's coming down the bench and he's kind of sweating. That's what Bryce Puff looks like out there.
Speaker 2:He slaps some Chuck Taylors on him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, tint the photo black and white.
Speaker 4:Oh my God, he has the correct length of shorts as well, too. For that, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:Those are fashionable now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they are, so everything changes right. Okay, so the Trojans are 9-5 right now, 1-2 in conference, not off to a great start. Eight and three. At home. Trojans had 7,000, I think 75 fans at the game. A lot of them were Michigan fans. There's still an issue with with getting people to the games. It was was school in session.
Speaker 2:No school is picking up Monday, Sorry, so that'd be the 13th.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the next home game is versus Iowa and Wisconsin. Man, there's going to be a lot of Iowa and Wisconsin fans at those games, I'm sure, but those are definitely great opportunities to really just see. I mean, this is like for, uh, you people out there who are working in Trojan marketing, who are marketing Trojans basketball, this is your, you know, this is your time to shine. Man, get out there, get people in the seats. Uh, okay, so Wednesday, tomorrow, if you're listening to this cause, cause, this is being recorded on a Monday, but we're going to put it out on Tuesday. Tomorrow is at Indiana, bloomington, indiana. I was actually going to go to this game Because being in Lexington is only three hours away, but right now we're in the middle of a major winter storm, so I thought that would probably not be a good idea To brave the icy roads Indiana. I watched them play against Penn State on Sunday and, man, it's going to be difficult.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of players who USC fans are going to recognize. Omar Ballo is one of them. Miles Rice, who last year played for Washington State, was a fantastic freshman. Kanan Carlisle, formerly of Stanford, is on this team. There is one good bit of news from the Trojans' perspective, malik Renaud, who is tied for the team lead in scoring for the Hoosiers, is out indefinitely, had a knee injury. So Mackenzie McBacco fantastic sophomore. 6'8", 220 pounds, he's averaging 14 points, five boards, shooting great from three-point as well. He's someone who's going to give us a lot of trouble, because having that size and skill alongside Balot is going to be something very hard to deal with. What are your guys' thoughts on the matchups in this game?
Speaker 2:You know, balo has been like a Trojan boogeyman. For the last it feels like I guess it's been four years, right, because I think he transferred after a year or two and this is his COVID year, I think he I heard he got like one or two mil to go to Indiana and Arizona.
Speaker 2:I guess didn't want to pay that. But you know, we've seen USC play fairly well against big guys, I think Danny Wolf being the exception because he was just such a combination of size and skill being the exception because he was just such a combination of size and skill, but I I feel like must may be able to cook up.
Speaker 2:You know a good strategy against him he's not like a monster numbers guy, even when he feels like in past years it felt like he would kill. You know, josh morgan or something and you look at the box. So he had like 10 points, you know not great, but not like he like yeah, yeah, I've never actually been, you know not great, but not like he like decimated yeah, I've never actually been, you know, that worried.
Speaker 1:I mean Balo, it was more of just like a. You know, it's more like the way he did things was intimidating If you're a fan, like the power which he dunked over Josh Morgan or Vince Iwuchukwu, but if you actually look at his game he's got some major. You know he's not exactly the most skilled guy. If he doesn't get the ball exactly where he needs to be, he's limited offensively. Of course he's a big space eater, so he's going to get his rebounds and that's going to be an issue. But he's not the quickest guy and he's not always in the best shape and of course his free throws are not great.
Speaker 1:So you know, I think the strategy in the Pac-12 was always to, you know, get out there and just hack him right and just send him to the line, wear him down. So I think you'll see some element of that. But maybe this is a game where you have AG down with him on the blocks and then someone like fronting him, kind of like USC did, I think, against Oregon, where we played a lot of sort of like a, like a. It was like a mod if it wasn't really a zone, but it was like a. It was like almost like we would trap, trap the big down low or at least have our, have our wing defender, sort of like on the in between there. So I think we might see more of that. What do you think, sky?
Speaker 2:chibuzo abo has actually been really effective fronting bigs when I've watched him um and that kind of works in like a small ball line for the trojans. So I guess that'll be an interesting matchup to kind of see who plays defense against followalo and, you know, if it's a smaller player, are they able to execute that strategy effectively to contain the other thing.
Speaker 1:The other thing you do when you have a situation where it's it's Balo and and um, uh, maybe they have if they bring in their other big, uh, mbaka is like a small forward kind of guy, but they don't have too many other bigs after him. This guy named a senior, named Langdon Hatton, who only averages two points, 1.6 board, but he's a 6'10 guy. But there's not actually not a lot of size on this Indiana team after Balo, especially with Reneau being hurt. He's 6'9". So maybe the key to this game is when Balo is in the game, when Indiana is going big, you go really small and you just make them run, do everything you can to run, wear them out, hack them, just make it an endurance thing.
Speaker 1:I think against Balo, I think that's if I'm playing this game. That's what I'm doing, because I don't think Indiana is their ball. Handlers are well. I mean, look, miles Rice is a tough player, he's averaging 12 points, and Luke Good is also someone who's going to play a lot because of Renault being out. He came over from Illinois, pretty solid player as well. I think that USC is just going to have to force Indiana's guards to beat them. I think, and try to keep the pace up if they can. I'm not sure what other strategy would work. What do you think, mark?
Speaker 4:Yeah, you hit on a couple of things that I wanted to mention. Really interesting that news about Renault. That's news to me Because when I look from a metric standpoint at this Indiana team, they basically just go six deep and that's it with any kind of offensive effectiveness, and now you're basically looking at nothing after your starting five if Renault's out offensive effectiveness, and now you're basically looking at nothing after you're starting five if Renault's out, um, very good breadth among the, amongst the starting five BPOs of 54, 58, 56, 51, 54. Um, but after that you're just going off a cliff. You're getting, like, you know, to guys in the in the mid forties and high thirties, um, which could be an advantage to us, um, especially if you do.
Speaker 4:You know, I like that idea you mentioned about, about, you know, making Balo really work. You know, this is where the bad news is. The good news we can just go without it. We can go without a big or just make it patent and just make him come out. You know, try to make him move as much as as as possible. You know, I think we need to be nice to Balo, because I heard that he was about to crack his first smile of this decade. So you know, if we're kind to him it might actually happen. But we'll see. But I think that's the way to go is is you know, especially with with nothing on the bench now, with Renault out, I mean this really looks like one of those classic Tim Floyd teams where it's like you got five and you've got five and that's, that's, all you've got is five, basically.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean they're a pretty good team, like you said, uh, but but they but they don't have a lot of depth, um and so if, if things uh don't go perfectly for them, perhaps uh, there's an end. But look, this is Indiana has not lost at home yet this year. They're they're pretty much boat racing everybody at home. I mean, they haven't played the best teams at home yet, just like most teams haven't at this point, but they handled Minnesota pretty well, beat them by 15, beat Rutgers by 10. And then there are three losses this year. They lost to Louisville at the tournament in the Bahamas and they lost to Gonzaga in the Bahamas as well. Both of those were bad losses. Louisville, which is not the best team, 89-61, 28-point loss, and they got killed by Gonzaga.
Speaker 1:I kind of look at that tournament as kind of like our little Palm Desert tournament kind of thing, where it's just kind of a lost weekend. And then they lost at Nebraska, which you know, nebraska is pretty tough when they're at home, as it turns out, because they just beat UCLA on Saturday at home. So not the worst loss, but this is going to be a tough place to play. I'm kind of disappointed that I'm not going to the game because I was really looking forward to seeing what it was like at Assembly Hall. What are you guys' thoughts on sort of like what we can expect to actually realistically see as far as outcome in this game?
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know, just from a metric standpoint, I agree with you. I think the venues really might be one of the definitive factors here. Offensively, just from a metric standpoint, this is really close. Usc is a 52.5 BPO, Indiana 51.7. Defensively, we, from a metric standpoint, this is really close. Usc is a 52.5 BPO, Indiana 51.7. Defensively, we're basically the same. Usc is a 46.7, Indiana 46.2. Indiana is not really an impressive defensive team. You consider there is a lot of bad efforts in our number there. That's basically the same as theirs. I wouldn't consider a win out of the question at all here. I'd say, of the two on this road trip I feel a lot better about Indiana. I mean, just from a number standpoint it's kind of a draw, and from a depth standpoint I give the nod to us.
Speaker 1:All right, what do you think, sky?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think this is where you would hope that the experience level on this team would play out, Now that hasn't exactly been tested this season. You know the only true road game was Washington, and that went extremely well. By the way, washington just beat Maryland, who was, like, on the verge of being ranked before this weekend.
Speaker 1:Washington just beat Maryland who was like on the verge of being ranked before this weekend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it seems like that USC game was by far Washington's worst of the season. Does that say something? I don't know, but I guess playing in one of the toughest stadiums probably in Indiana, you know, with a huge fan base, that'll be interesting, but a lot of guys who have been in there before in that kind of scenario yeah, I think the the makeup of USC team is such that the earlier in the season there was, like I mentioned earlier, a wide spectrum of performance by the team really good performances, some really bad performances.
Speaker 1:It's evened out a bit to where it's within a narrower range or the bad performances are within inside of games during certain segments of games, but they're often balanced out by good performances during other parts of those games. So, you know, I think it's kind of a situation where you know you roll the dice a bit and you're just going to get some combination of in this game it's going to be Desmond Claude having a big game. In this game it's going to be Chibuzo Abo going over 10 from three point land. You know, you know it's like you don't know what kind of outcome you're going to get and there is some sense of of like the.
Speaker 1:The unfamiliarity of either team with each team's personnel isn't necessarily going to be a hard advantage for either team, but it could certainly be have advantages for USC in ways that we don't really fully understand yet because we're not as closely or intimately familiar with the, the idiosyncrasies of every one of Indiana's players. So certainly there's a potential there at any time, I think, for USC, like they showed against Gonzaga, we could just have a Gonzaga game and go off, and and I think it will happen at one of these road, on one of these road games, I think I don't think it's going to be indiana, but I think it will happen.
Speaker 4:Thoughts why not indiana? I did. This is not a deep team. I know the venue and all that and and I don't know Not that I watched a lot of Big Ten basketball before but is Mike Woodson the same caliber coach as Musselman?
Speaker 1:No, no by most people's accounts no. That's one of the things I do know about the Big Ten of years past. Certainly not. The Indiana fans would certainly not think so. But hey, you know what though, mark? You convinced me. Let's just, let's do it. Shall we do it. Shall we beat them, let's beat them.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, let's do it, yep, yep.
Speaker 1:Let's do it, yep, okay, so the Trojans play Indiana on Wednesday and then on Saturday. By the way, the Indiana game on Wednesday is on the Big Ten network at 4 pm Pacific time, which is an interesting time for those living on the West Coast. Maybe some people won't be done with work or maybe it'll be a nice way to finish your work. Looking at your phone, I have a sense that, like this was a weird. It worked out really well. That there's the Trojan radio network is probably going to get a lot of listeners for this game because people are going to be going home during rush hour probably listening to the game and for those who have a really bad commute they're probably going to hear the whole thing on the radio. But on Saturday the Trojans take on Illinois. They go to Champaign and play Illinois. That's also on the Big Ten Network. It's a 9 am Saturday Pacific Coast time game.
Speaker 1:Illinois is 11-3, 3-1 in the Big Ten under coach Brad Underwood. They've got two freshman Eastern Europeans, kasperis Jakusonis, who is a freshman guard, 6'6 guard, the kind of guard that Musk would love 16.4 points per game, almost six boards, five assists. So pretty well-rounded player as a freshman. Of course I don't think he's an 18 year old freshman. And then there's another freshman who's a seven foot one, 260 pound Evisich, tomas Tomaslav Evisich, from Croatia. Uh, jackie Shonich is from Lithuania, so, uh, he's averaging 14.9 boards. And then some names that USC fans will also remember. Another Arizona, former Arizona guy, kylan Boswell, who I really always liked as a player. He always killed us. He's going to be difficult to deal with. And then Trey White, who is only a junior, as it turns out, and he is averaging again. He would have been a kind of guy who would have maybe fit in with what Musk is trying to do, but 10.7 points, 5.5 boards, he's contributing there.
Speaker 1:So, illinois, another sort of team that's still kind of feeling their way. They score a lot. They're one of the best scoring teams in the country 87.6 points per game. Pretty decent defense too 67 points. So USC is going to have its hands full. Another group of just big guys there's a 7'1 guy, there's a 6' seven, one guy, there's a six, eight, six, nine, six, nine, six, 10 guys up and down the bench. So, uh, not a massive team, but a pretty big team that's. You know, it's going to be a challenge, uh, for USC, especially if they don't um do well against Indiana. You're looking at going in the next game and having to kind of dig deep down. Try to salvage the road trip. Thoughts on this game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think Illinois is going to be tough. I mean, they have three losses on the season one to the number one team in the country, one to the number eight team in the country, and then they lost at Northwestern. In overtime they just throttled Oregon too at Oregon, which is not an easy place to play, and then, of course, they beat Washington too in a game that was actually closer than the Oregon game. So yeah, that's going to be challenging. It's funny to see Trey White when he came into USC and he played quite well for a freshman and then he's played almost exactly identically every other season.
Speaker 2:I just looked he's up to his free throw percentage, which is great, but every other statistical category is very, very similar. Yeah, all three years, like, yeah, within like 0.5 percentage points yeah, it's, it's amazing he's.
Speaker 1:He's still a like 20s. You know he was 27 three-point shooter at usc. He got up to 29.9 at movable and now he's at 29.6. So he, he is who he is. You don't have to worry about his three-point shooting. He is a good two-point shooter, definitely has a. His effective field goal percentage is 60% right now because he's not taking a lot of twos or a lot of threes. He's taking a lot of twos though, and then, like you said, he's shooting better from free throw, from the free throw line 87, and that's probably accounts for, you know, a decent amount of his, his scoring um.
Speaker 1:But yeah, this is, this is going to be a tough haul. It is interesting because there's there's I think there's going to be um a lot of fans for both Indiana and Illinois who are sort of coming out to see the curiosity that is USC coming to town, which doesn't happen very often. So I would think that they're going to be extra raucous, extra salty, to try to. This is USC's first real Big Ten road trip here, so welcome to the Big Ten guys. Here's what you have to look forward to. I think that's what we're going to see.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Speaking to Trey white, um is his favorite football player, Jaden Rashada, because they, I just seemed a lot of similarities there. I don't know if you know, Jaden Rashada is back in the portal.
Speaker 1:I think I saw that, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:For his fourth team now after, after you know, over 24 months here. Boy, some guys are just nomads at heart, I guess, Geez.
Speaker 1:Killa Boswell.
Speaker 4:I guess you will never ever confuse him with your favorite Arizona Wildcat, much-documented Bryce Love right.
Speaker 1:He's still playing for Arizona.
Speaker 4:Caleb.
Speaker 1:Love.
Speaker 4:Or Caleb Love. Yeah, Boy, I got that again.
Speaker 1:Bryce Love was pretty good.
Speaker 2:He was yeah, I do want to just go off topic very briefly because I don't think we ever talked about this. We're facing a former Trojan in Trey White. How weird was it seeing Max Aguabang Polo back in the Galen Center. How weird was it seeing Max Aguampolo back in the Galen Center that was pretty weird.
Speaker 1:That was weird, certainly struck me that poor Max, so much as timing and place and time, and he sort of came to USC during the COVID stretch and he was a complimentary player and it was almost like he was never going to be a star but he could have remained a good complimentary player but I think if he had stayed and maybe had a good senior year. But I think when you are chasing whatever he was chasing by going to, to wyoming, making a few bucks I guess. But certainly it looked to me that like, um, this was a guy who's probably gonna be happy when not happy, but not gonna be that upset when his basketball career is over. You know he's ready, ready to lay it up.
Speaker 2:For anybody that likes drama. You know that wash, that Wyoming team, was like a disaster because Graham EK sat out the whole season, presumably with injury, and then Ethan Anderson, max Agbong-Polo and what's the dude, the sharpshooter guy from UCLA.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Kamen, kamen, jake Kamen yeah. They all went there together Jake Kamen Kamen, sorry, yeah, the three LA guys went together and then like either quit or got dismissed halfway through the season. It was really strange.
Speaker 1:And then I think that cook got fired too. Yeah, that was a whole mess that didn't work out.
Speaker 2:Didn't work out very well, hopefully you know, but they seem like go ahead, sorry. Well, I'm just gonna say I'll never forget. On the board there was that one uh poster with the sauces and he was like max on bonpolo is to be the best recruit you've ever seen and then a week later he's like I changed my mind. He's not going to be good.
Speaker 1:He's like trust my sauces. That guy is sort of a notorious figure in that he. Well, I'll tell you guys offline. I don't want to name any names. We know who that guy is.
Speaker 4:Here's the entree of the premium content. Right there, right.
Speaker 1:Exactly. By the way, just so everybody knows, in addition to our little chat here, next up, our next segment we're going to be talking to CeCe Clay, who is Trojan Junkie, over on the women's board. She does a great TikTok channel, the women's board. She does a great uh uh TikTok channel covering women's basketball. I kept up, you know I I really wish we could do more to cover women's basketball, but I just don't have the bandwidth to do it. Um uh no, no slight on on the women of Troy, cause they're fantastic, number four in the country, 14 and one filling up, filling up the Galen center guys. You know I was talking to CC about this when I think it's time for for USC basketball is marketing, to step up and get people in the seats. Do something, you know, because I think this, this, this, like this idea that, oh, if, if we win, then people will show up. That's not how you. You know that's not what fans are, that's not fan, that's not fandom, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4:Like it, but but it's but it's technically factually correct, sure, of course, but yeah that's not a plan, though.
Speaker 1:Right, that's like saying well, eventually day turns tonight yes, well, exactly, and you know people are going to the women's games because of juju, juju's, this. You know, this cultural star, right, she's been, she's a, she is someone who's known, so people want to go see juju. There's and celebrities are going, so that's a thing. But when juju's gone, who's going to draw people to the games? And it's like all these people who are there for juju, it's just like all the people who came to the games to see Brawny play. Yep, right, it's like a sugar high.
Speaker 1:You get some nice crowds or you improve your attendance but these people aren't sticking. You know, it's like on the internet where someone links to your page, somebody famous links to your page and you get like a million down. You know visits on your page and you're like, oh yeah, I got a million visits, this is great. And then you know those people never come back again because they got what they came for, that one, that one hit. So it just seems like there's gotta be some effort out there to to start building this foundation.
Speaker 1:For for getting a, you know, at least a stable, you gotta get 5,000 every game. You know you gotta have like a core 5,000 because it's a 10,000 seat stadium If you get a core five, then then you could sell out game. It's a lot easier to get to that next five. With the you get the combination of the, the hanger on the, you know the bandwagon people cause they're winning, or there's like a player who they want to see star player, and then you get like you know the, the opposing team plus just people are there for whatever reason, something to do on a Saturday, so so it's like they, but they got to get to that baseline. How do they do it?
Speaker 2:You know I've said this before, but my, my gut feeling has always been that this season for USC men's basketball is about kind of everybody getting their bearings. Musk didn't have a full off season, you know. He put the roster together as best as he could, along with the help of his assistants, and we have a fairly new athletic director, a lot of new support staff. In the basketball side there could be a much larger push next season and I don't want to write off this season because, as the diehard fans know, these players are good guys and they're fun to watch. But you know, we actually saw one of the biggest marketing pushes ever happen for USC basketball just last season and you know it didn't work out. So maybe they're kind of regathering a little bit. But everything you're saying of course is right, chris, but it is also inherently. It's just hard to play in LA. Look at the Clippers right, they went to the Western Conference Finals and stuff a couple years ago. Everybody still thinks they're Joe.
Speaker 1:Well, that goes back to what I've been saying is that USC has been trying to activate its existing fan base to go to basketball games and they need to create a new fan base. They need to create a new fan base 5,000 people. You find 5,000 people in a metropolitan area of 20 million to come to your games every time. Just 5,000 people.
Speaker 4:Well, yeah, Now, granted, you're asking a CPA for a marketing plan, so get ready for some really bad advice here. But think about your favorite you know, the school or the teams that you live and die for. It's you know, USC. It's basically the teams that you were, that you're basically familiar with when your hormones are running the highest. There's just some kind of attachment to that, I you know. I think you cannot use the Clippers analogy because, um, the Clippers cannot really, as an NBA team, give away a bunch of tickets. Um, USC, can I think you've got to just give away boatloads of tickets to local, like junior high schools, Cause those, they will be loud and they will, they will show up.
Speaker 1:um you know there isn't. There is an issue with with high schools still, because if you're over uh sophomore year, you're a prospective student athlete so junior highs did the junior, you're right no, it should be
Speaker 1:it should be. There's if you go down to manual arts, you know, and find the freshman class and tell them to come down and they'll, and they'll. You know they can have a section and they can just make a bunch of noise and whatever. And you know the team can, you know the coach can come out and talk to them and say, hey, come, come out every, every game and, and you know this will be your seats and and this, like we, we've actually talked about trying to create a, you know a group and the Galen on behalf of USC basketballcom, uh, to create a special rooting section, sort of like the old thundering herd days in football. But it's really hard to get too much interest when the you know the team is, like you mentioned, sky still in its formative program, still in its formative uh stage, which reminds me that USC got a new recruit, uh committed, lz Harrington, who's at St John Bosco Really good player.
Speaker 1:Usc now has two top 50 recruits for 2025, committed, including Jerry Easter. Harrington's a 6'5" guard wing. He can score it and handle it. Usc's not having any trouble getting 6'4", 6'5" guys to come to the program. Good thing about Harrington and something that in the next segment, cece talks about. One reason for the women's popularity is the fact that there's a lot of local players on the team. Something like five players on the team are local. So getting Harrington, who's a local product is a good thing, and I think maybe herein lies some of the difficulty in attracting local people to come to the games when these aren't people they saw in high school, because there used to be that thing. It's like when Harold Miner came to play for USC he had been a legend over at Morningside, so that kind of element is taken away. But it's great getting LZ Harrington in.
Speaker 1:He's a guy that USC, the previous staff had their eye on and so he had committed to Harvard and I know some people were scoffing at the fact that he had been committed to Harvard, but Harvard is know. I think that they they're starting to carve out um, something, uh, something with uh, with their approach. Um, because Tommy Amaker is the coach there and he is like they, they. They had a guy, um commit, from Harvard Westlake whose name, uh name escapes me, but he was, um, uh, trent Perry's teammate at Harvard Westlake. He was fantastic player, uh, could have gone to USC. I would have loved him, have have had him at USC. In fact, I would arguably I mean, I would almost take, I think he's, he's, I would say he's just as good in some ways as Perry coming out of high school. But, yeah, so it's really not that strange in this era of NIL for some of these guys who go to really good schools, who have really good grades to go to Harvard. But Harrington, luckily we got him away and he's going to stay close to home. So that's two players now in the 2025 recruiting class.
Speaker 1:But your point about starting this marketing next year is that once again, we're going to be in a situation unless the Trojans get a marquee transfer, like someone that people can get excited over, it's going to be to the casual fan. It's going to be no different than the guys this year for all they know, right. So it's like just getting again having to get to know these guys unless they can. If they get Desmond Claude to return assuming he returns those things are never guarantees but if he returns, maybe he's the marquee player, maybe it's Isaiah Elohim, maybe he makes a jump, but but there's certainly not going to be that hook, personnel-wise as far as we can see, from which a marketing plan can be based on.
Speaker 2:I think Claude is getting some attention on this USC team, at least locally, and he's only going to get better next season if he returns, which I'm sure we all hope he does. I think it's smart for Must to be going after local players already, and it kind of worked out that Elohim had committed to him but is also a Los Angeles area player, so a lot of fans have been nervous about recruiting, but I think it's going to work out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was also told that the bigs are going to be transfers. Usc is going to work the transfer market for bigs. I wouldn't expect to see any prep bigs coming in, unless it's like a late breaking situation where someone develops late and we find them or we're able to peel an existing big away from some other team. Certainly, uh, you know we're in this era now where aj de bonza is going to byu for four million, five million, whatever the number is. I can't remember what it was, but it's getting. It's starting to get a little ridiculous. You certainly don't need. I love AJ DeBonse, he's a phenomenal player, but what's he going to do for BYU for one year?
Speaker 4:What's he going to do at BYU for one year Right?
Speaker 1:He's not going to party, that's for sure. Maybe he knows himself.
Speaker 4:Good for the soul, he'll cleanse himself himself not that he needs cleansing, who knows? But maybe he took?
Speaker 2:maybe he took philosophy and enjoys socrates, and he knows thyself you know I read this article and the details escape me because it's not my field of expertise, but supposedly there's like some federal legislation on the table that is going to be I don't want to say it's a salary cap, exactly but it's kind of putting a lot of restraints on how much schools can spend on NIL.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're talking about revenue sharing. I think is kind of the thing that they're going into like pushing the model over to revenue sharing versus raising money for NIL. There will still be NIL opportunities but in theory they wouldn't be facilitated by the school and hopefully that's something that can hammer things out. I think basketball is not getting messed up over this as much as football is right now. College football is just a huge swirling mess right now and it's going to get even worse because now they're talking about going to five years of eligibility. So it's just what we're looking at is a bunch of distortions going on in collegiate sports and the five years by the'll we'll extend to all sports.
Speaker 1:So men's basketball, women's basketball, they all have five years of eligibility and I'm just thinking it's like who, as a fan part of part of like, the heartbreak of our part of like, the hard part about dealing with this current era is the heartbreak of our part of like? A hard part about dealing with this current era is the heartbreak of roster the rosters and thinking, oh, we're gonna be good next year. No, we're not gonna be good next year, you know, but maybe we are. Will we be good because we bought these guys over, but are they gonna be good for us? You know, know, it's just. Yeah, I don't know, I don't like it. I don't like it one bit.
Speaker 4:Well, a couple of very disparate thoughts on that. Number one. It's weird. Mark Cuban talked about this years ago in the NBA context. He said the next big wave in talent assessment is going to be psychology. So will part of scouting be basically assessing the you know innate loyalty of some guys?
Speaker 1:That's interesting.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that could be it. The other thing that's totally, totally different. But a factor in this is I wouldn't. I'm still skeptical, despite legislation, if that holds up, because you can't just say, oh, because I made a law, you're not allowed to make money off your likeness. I can't see that standing up in a court of law.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't think that's the rule. What they're doing is limiting what the schools can spend on players.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 1:But then the collectives can still throw all kinds of money at people, then Well, and I mean, if a player wants to go get to get a sponsorship, you know, player, the player as an agent. If, uh, coca-cola wants to put that player in a commercial and pay the player, then he can do it, yep, right. But the idea is that the school is not going to be like doing this, facilitating this kind of stuff, like the school is going to make sure that, okay, uniform, I mean that's the idea but what happened?
Speaker 4:okay, you're going to tell me that people at ohio state, just because everybody likes to pick on them, because they are seriously crazy people, I, they will have a collective, whether it's it's it's directed by the school or not, and they will, they will, they will find a million dollar marketing opportunity for some guy to show up at his daughter's birthday party yeah, without a doubt.
Speaker 1:Um, but I think that you get to a point of diminishing returns as far as, like Fair, it won't be as widespread, I guess. But not only that, but it's like, if you have a good amount to spend on NIL, you're seeing a lot of like. Obviously, you're creating a lot of parity between teams, because teams have access to players that they didn't have access to before. I'm going to get you here, but go on, yeah, yeah, so you know. So you're. You're not all right. Well, you go ahead. You tell me what.
Speaker 4:So you wouldn't leave somewhere else for a 10% raise. You wouldn't go to a new, new place.
Speaker 1:Well, no, no, no, like. If you're the idea is that if, if you, as long, if you Like, if you're the idea is that if, if you, um, as long if you, if you're spending 20, like, say, let's say that you need, let's say, like you, there's a certain threshold of NIL, of NIL expenditure. That's not even call it NIL expenditure, let's just call it of salary to player. Yeah, yep, certain expenditure. And as long as you reach a certain threshold, within this threat, within this total, you could reasonably, reasonably, be be assured of getting the quality player right. You're not going to get a like, you won't get a bad player for, for 2 million or whatever.
Speaker 1:Correct Right so so it's like if, if you get a really good player for 2 million and you know Ohio state wants to go out and spend, you know, facilitate an extra two million for that player.
Speaker 4:Let's just call it 10 percent, even two hundred thousand dollars, I'm sure a lot of a lot of guys would leave for that opportunity.
Speaker 1:Well, the other thing that that not a lot of people are talking about is the fact that if you are an LA kid or someone who lives in Southern California and this is, I think, why these modern day kids are going and someone's going to pay you a million dollars to go play for them, If you're going to USC, for that million dollars, you've got California taxes, you've got California cost of living, right. And so it's like if the argument is that, hey, if you come to Dubuque or wherever it is that they're getting you to come to, you're coming to Milwaukee or you're coming to Green Bay or you're coming to Lexington or wherever, that million dollars is going to go a lot further and you don't have to spend it. You're going to be able to make something out of that. So it's like I think that's where a lot of these LA kids are like yeah, this makes a lot of sense to, uh, you know, just the cost of living alone.
Speaker 1:If you've got a million dollars, you're going to USC, you want to live anywhere in your campus, that's, that's not, you know, dilapidated and and and scary. You know, you're probably living in a nice place downtown or on the west side, and it's not cheap. It's not cheap, so you're just throwing money on a rat hole just for just as a college student. You know when and when you could just be in tuscaloosa in a mansion yeah, but it's tuscaloosa, but not well, no, no, but these are college students.
Speaker 1:But like you know, like you know, like you know, it's like you'll people will join the military. You know to pay for college, right, it's like it's the same kind of you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:Sky. The ultimate solution to this, which hopefully comes sooner rather than later, is players unions and collective bargaining.
Speaker 4:Yep.
Speaker 2:Because, then you know, there will be contracts that will potentially I would say most likely be multi-year contracts. People are going to have to get over the fact that the players are professionals and have been professionals for several decades. But the sooner that happens, honestly I think, the better for everybody, because no one likes to see things like the UNLV quarterback you know, or was it.
Speaker 1:Bear, not Bear Bryant.
Speaker 2:Bear Alexander, he did the same thing sat out, like you know, three quarters of the USC season.
Speaker 1:Well, no one likes that?
Speaker 2:Well, no, exactly, I'm sure the players don't even like that. But the good thing about college basketball especially is that people are on different developmental timelines and there are enough talented players that it's not as much of a super small commodity. Now there's certain positions like point guards and bigs, that the cream of the crop is definitely going to separate. Yeah, you know, you have guys. There's this guy, wisconsin. Now if you've seen him play, john Tonje, he came from Colorado state and he's like tearing it up 93% free throw shooter Wisconsin. Last I checked top free throw shooting team nation. He's averaging like 18 points or something.
Speaker 2:I never heard of him before this season. I don't know if you guys had, but there are guys out there who will, you know, be able to go to lots of different teams.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's tons of basketball players out there. And also, you know, the other thing is that basketball, college basketball has been used to transients for a long time. Right, you know it's been used to the one and dones and the three and dones. Well, in long time, right it's, you know it's been.
Speaker 4:well, it's been used to the one and dones and the three and like, like the, the, the coaching ranks too. There's been a lot of guys who just here, there and everywhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, for sure, Like. But like you can, college basketball fans are more used to dealing with the concept of your player. You know the, the, the team roster, sort of being remade every year and has been for for longer. To some extent, right, and so that's why it's so much more of a shock to football. But anyway, be that as it may, we'll see what happens and hopefully, especially if they can couple all those changes you were talking about sky with, like, scheduling reform, where you have some kind of some kind of a schedule, uniformity, so that youity, so that you aren't able to game the system like used to be the case under the old ways of doing things. So, guys, I think we're over an hour here, got to get to CC. Do you guys have any thoughts to close things out? Usc at nine and five heading to see, uh, to play Indiana and Illinois this week.
Speaker 2:Just watch the games you know, have fun, support the team however you can, and it's everything's building even game by game. I think it's building 9am basketball.
Speaker 4:Can't remember the last time I did that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it should be fun and you know, 4 pm and 9 am Not bad. It's great for those of us on the East Coast. Here I'm not sacrificing my beauty sleep, so all right. Well, on behalf of Sky and Mark, thanks everybody for listening. We'll be back next week to talk about what happened against Indiana and Illinois and to look ahead to Iowa and Wisconsin. Hopefully the Trojans can have some bright spots. Thanks again for listening. Be sure to like us, review us, follow us, subscribe all that good stuff. Okay, so we'll see you guys later Coming up. Next, a Woman of Troy update with CeC.
Speaker 4:Fight on as always, fight on.
Speaker 1:All right, welcome back to the dunk city podcast brought to you by uscbasketballcom. I am here with CC clay, better known as also known as Trojan junkie, on the woman of Troy uh uh, troy. Message board at uscbasketballcom. She is doing some incredible work over on TikTok under the account name NSPIRME. That's N-S-P-I-R-M-E. Some great breakdowns of USC women's basketball games and analytics. So lots of great interesting content coming out on the women's side, of course. The women's basketball team is currently sitting at 14-1, 4-0 in conference. They're on a 10-game win streak, coming fresh off a 92-42 thrashing at Rutgers. Cc Clay, thanks for coming on the show and welcome.
Speaker 3:Thank you. I appreciate it, Chris, and I'm humbled that you asked me to be on the pod. I look forward to talking about USC women's hoops.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hopefully it's a more common thing, hopefully a weekly update. I'm curious just from looking at a big picture of USC women's basketball right now. Is this year's team where you thought they would be at this point in the season?
Speaker 3:Yes and no. You know, with the transfers coming in, the seven freshmen, and then the two transfers, kiki and TVO Talia Van Ohoven coming in, it's, it's uh, it's baby steps, right because of the offense, the type of offense that they run and the chemistry building. So it's a work in progress. I think they are where they need to be right now because they don't want to hit their trajectory right now. So I think that by the time Big Ten Conference Championship comes around, the conference playoffs, that will be where we need to be. Right now, we're still learning each other, or they're still learning each other, but they're not in a bad place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Juju Watkins, of course, leads the team. 25.1 points per game. Her field goal percentage has improved this year up to 45%, shooting pretty well from three-point land 35.1%. Of course, very good at the free throw line as well. How is Juju coming along as an overall player, do you think, so far in her sophomore season?
Speaker 3:You've seen the improvements. You've seen the improvements in the way that she can read the defense now, and you've seen the improvements in her efficiency knowing when to take shots, knowing when to pass the ball, knowing when to drive and kick. Last year she was kind of like a freshman, like a deer in headlights, she was just playing because she can play. Now it's a little bit more, you know, thought driven, and so she's. She's reading the defense, or basketball IQ has improved tremendously and so, yes, she's. She's improved very well this year so far.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you talked a lot about the or you just mentioned the transfers and the new and the newcomers that came, the talented freshman class, who has been the biggest sort of surprise coming in with that new group.
Speaker 3:Kennedy Kennedy Smith, I wouldn't say that she's been a surprise. I mean, we all know that she was going to be a dog when she got here. Her nickname is Ken Dog, but she's just. I mean, the way she plays defense and the way she talks about playing defense has been a surprise. Like I thought she was going to come in and offensively be good, but it's the opposite. I didn't know that she loved defense, the way that she loves defense, but I mean she is such an important piece for this team as far as the defense is concerned and what she does for this team defensively, it's been a huge surprise.
Speaker 1:And, of course, Kiki Uraifin, who transferred over from Stanford. She has been outstanding this year. What's your thoughts on her so far?
Speaker 3:Kiki's doing good and Kiki's going to get better. And I think what people need to understand is players that come into this system are coming into a system where Lindsey develops WNBA pros. So they're coming out of a college system that was a strict offense, you know, like the Princeton offense, where you know particular players have spots that they move to at any particular time, and with this offense it's more like a read and react pro-style offense with a hybrid set offensive plays attached to it, so players are really taught to use their IQ and to read and react on the fly. You know game time, situation, game time decisions.
Speaker 1:The Trojans are coming off just a massive blowout of Rutgers 50 points, 92-42, a game that was 22-8 in the first quarter, 37-14 at the half. Juju Watkins 23 points, 14 rebounds. The Trojans had 56 boards to Rutgers' 28. What are your thoughts on the performance against Rutgers?
Speaker 3:on the performance against Rutgers. You know it's hard to talk about the performance against the Rutgers team because the Rutgers team was missing their best player, you know. But I will say that you know Lindsey called a couple timeouts to remind this team to keep their foot on the gas because they were making some mental mistakes. I mean they had 13 turnovers by the end of the first half so and they had 17 total. So that is a work in progress. Their three point shooting was better this game than it has been previously. That's still a work in progress but overall it was a good showing defensively for this team. I mean they had what? 18 turnovers, or they forced 18 turnovers for Rutgers, I think it was. So it was a good showing and I'm glad you know that we, that we did do what we did even without Rutgers best player.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 27 turnovers is the actual number, oh 27. Remarkable number.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:There one player, Lisa Thompson, herself had eight turnovers, which is pretty amazing. So looking at some of the players in that game Kennedy Smith, six of nine, 19 points, three of five from three-point land Is she pretty comfortable now, do you think?
Speaker 3:Yeah, she's coming off an injury. So this is her second game back, or her her third game back. Uconn was her first game back, um. So she had a a d injury that required a procedure and so she was out for six or seven games and um. You know that that really made a difference in our team. You know she's a huge part of this team. So her coming back, yes, she's starting to feel comfortable and it's starting show. I mean, you know, on the floor yesterday when Kennedy Smith was on the floor, we were a plus 40 and plus minus. So that that says a lot about her, her gameplay and how important she is to this team.
Speaker 1:How big was that win over UConn? Uconn right now is number seven, Trojans number four. One of UConn's two losses was to USC at home. How big is that? Was that win for the program?
Speaker 3:Really big because you know, last year in the elite eight that's who we lost to. We lost to UConn and the game was at UConn. So and and at the time UConn was ranked fourth and we were ranked seven. So a lot of people had UConn favorite in that game too, by a lot, not by little, but I think you know you look at the ESPN stats they were favoring UConn 80%, you know, to win this game. So for us to go in there and take it from UConn, you know was a big deal and I think that people don't realize. You know our loss to Notre Dame was due to Kennedy not being there. You know, if Kennedy wasn't hurt, I think we win that game. So Kennedy being back is a big deal for us and she truly helped us win that UConn game as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, looking at the rankings, ucla is number one. They're 15 and 0. South Carolina number two, 14 and 1. Notre Dame, who beat USC number three at 12 and 2. Then USC beat USC number three at 12-2, then USC, texas, lsu and UConn and Maryland, who the women of Troy play, coming up here the next game. Do you think that USC is about where it should be ranking-wise, or do you think that it's better than some of the teams ahead of it? Or do you think that maybe it still has some more to prove before it can earn that ranking?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know I think we're right where we need to be, you know I mean, our only loss is Notre Dame. I don't you know if we're ranked number two or number three. You know we have a lot of people out there that are not believers of USC. You know what I mean. So they're like USC shouldn't be ranked two. A lot of people think they shouldn't be ranked four. So I think we're right where we need to be. We're kind of sitting quiet. Nobody's talking about us right now, and it takes the pressure off us a little bit.
Speaker 1:And tell me about that Maryland team. Of course they're 14-0, one of the few remaining undefeated teams in the country. What does USC have in store coming up for that game, which takes place on Wednesday 5.30 pm in College Park on Fox Sports 1?
Speaker 3:Yeah, maryland is coached by Brenda Freeze. They have won a national championship in the past and she brought in a lot of transfers, lot of good transfers, and has got this team gelling. They are big and they are athletic. They, they start, you know, six, two, six, two, six, two, six foot, and, uh, they have a little point guard at five, five, but then they come off the bench with four others so they go nine or ten deep. Um, they have shooters, you know they can shoot the three point shot, uh, and they're athletic. Defensively they're not as good a defensive team as us. We're the number one defensive team in the Big Ten right now. I think they're right around four in the Big Ten. So it's a good matchup because it's in Maryland and I'm interested to see how we play.
Speaker 3:You know, we have to be mentally ready to play Well.
Speaker 1:certainly, winning at UConn is definitely a great sort of practice for playing in a difficult road environment. I'm curious about your impressions are on the Big Ten as a conference from a competition standpoint. You know we're used to the Pac-12 and the style of play, the teams, the familiarity. Usc has played a game against Oregon but then the three other more traditional Big Ten teams Michigan, nebraska, rutgers, trojans have dispatched fairly easily. From a style of play standpoint, how has the Big Ten been different from the Pac-12?
Speaker 3:You know it's funny because the Big Ten is kind of each team is kind of different stylistically, right In the Pac-12, pac-12 was a post-dominant conference. In my opinion. You know, from team to team, every team had a good post player In the Big Ten, you know, and also in the Pac 12, you had a lot of good defensive teams. In the big 10, you have good defensive teams but their, their defense, is not as good as it was in the PAC 12. Like we're, you know, in your face type of defense. You know we want to turn the ball over, we want to play transition ball. The big 10, they like to score. You know what I mean. So defense isn't a priority for them. So it's pretty interesting to see the differences. But I will tell you that the other difference is, with the Big Ten we only play each team once.
Speaker 3:So you have to have that mentality going in there, like it's the NCAA tournament right, it's one and done. You only get one shot.
Speaker 1:It's kind of the inverse of the men's side, where in men's basketball the Big Ten and also even in football, a more physical slow it down style, yeah, and the Pac-12 on the men's side is more footloose and fancy, free and wide open both in football and men's basketball, but now in women's basketball it's defense. And then the Big Ten is the scoring conference. Of course. We saw, uh, the great Iowa teams with Caitlin Clark how much they could score, and this seems to I would suspect, that this was probably a big influence on a lot of the other teams. Just having to keep up with the Joneses happened to. You know once. A few teams are juggernaut scoring teams. Some of the other teams have to keep up, sink or swim kind of thing Can USC score with these?
Speaker 3:teams. Do you think we have the firepower? Oh yeah, I mean we're. We're averaging, you know, 80 points a game right now. You know what I mean. I don't think scoring is an issue for us, because of our trends, because of our defense. Why can our transition play?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I think that teams you know we have the advantage this year because none of these big 10 teams have really played us right. They can see us on film, but they haven't played us. So this year is a year that we need to take advantage of that and go in there and do what we do defensively and offensively. We're bringing it on both sides of the of the floor this year.
Speaker 1:Well, certainly it looks like. After Maryland come back to Galen, we have Penn State and Northwestern, and not necessarily the toughest teams to play, and then a little bit further down the road in February, the Battle of LA against UCLA. How big is that game going to be at Galen? Do you think we can sell that one out?
Speaker 3:Oh, it's close to sold out already it is. You know it'll be sold out. I mean the game against who did we play the other week at Galen? It was almost sold out Michigan. Yeah, Michigan was almost sold out that game had over 8,000 people there. So um Ohio state might sell out. You know what I mean, and. But UCLA will definitely sell out, if it's not already sold out.
Speaker 1:And then just you know, looking ahead to the season, what are some things that you're looking at beyond just the record and maybe some of the more superficial top line stats? What are some things to keep an eye on for people who are following usc women's basketball like what little markers should they look at to see that, hey, this is happening?
Speaker 3:this means that that this is a good sign for the overall team uh, their chemistry, you know, as as we go from game to game, watch how their chemistry is building because of the type of offense that Lindsey runs that and watch how much more their defense develops. I mean, and I think they need to pay attention to our freshmen, especially Kaylee Heckel and Kennedy Smith and Avery Howell, our three, you know, top freshmen that really see a lot of playing time, watch their development and watch how they fit into Lindsay's system as the year continues.
Speaker 1:Well, cece Clay thanks for giving us this great update on the woman of Troy. Cece, of course, has a great TikTok channel for those of you who enjoy TikTok. I enjoy TikTok. So if someone as old as me can do it, tiktok, so uh, so uh. You know if, if someone as old as me can do it, uh, you guys can get out there too. Um, again, her account is inspire me. It's N S P I R M? E. I'm sure if you also Google USC women's basketball, I'm sure you would also come up as well. And, of course, over on the women of Troy message board at USC basketballcom. She's pretty much the star of the show Trojan junkies. So we really appreciate you coming by and hopefully we can talk to you again soon.
Speaker 3:Yes, sir, I look forward to it. Hey, check out USC women's basketball If you don't. It's a great team to watch and make sure you tune in. This Wednesday it's going to be a great game against Maryland and fight on.
Speaker 1:Fight on everyone.
