Speaker 1: 0:26

Welcome back to the Dunk City Podcast brought to you by uscbasketballcom. We are here with Mark Backstrom and Sky Liam, as always, and with the special guest, Ryan Karchi of the Los Angeles Times. He's just completed his sixth season covering USC football and basketball. He writes the Times of Troy column, which is kind of a new style blog that features all kinds of great tidbits on USC as well as other areas of interest. Be sure to check that out. Before the Times, he was a features and UCLA beat writer for the OC Register. Ryan is from Michigan and he attended the University of Michigan, which is one of the few schools that has achieved big success in both football and hoops, which leads us to our current project, which is USC basketball. And can it ever match the heights that football has reached? How are you doing, Ryan? Thanks for coming.

Speaker 2: 1:14

I'm doing great. It's actually an interesting comparison between the two of them. Michigan has unlocked maybe how to succeed on the basketball end. Usc is still trying to figure it out.

Speaker 1: 1:27

Yeah, it's kind of a. How much of that do you think is sort of like commitment from the school itself, luck or just sort of the demands of the fan base?

Speaker 2: 1:41

Well, if you're comparing it to Michigan, I mean, so I grew up in the brian ellerby, tommy amaker uh, just dumpster fire of a decade for michigan basketball, uh, basically everything since the fab five, uh, really had been downhill. But um, you know, I think they got really lucky at michigan with a coach like john beeline, um, and just thewise the way college basketball was going. I think it was a confluence of factors With USC. I think Andy Enfield was such an interesting case in that he was good enough to give USC what it wanted, what it was hoping for, but I don't know that he ever had what it took to elevate them past that point.

Speaker 2: 2:25

Maybe whether it's just his coaching, or he was always a great recruiter but it never really seemed to come together. And I think part of that you know, I think if you asked Andy he would probably say that part of that was backing of the school and you know just certain elements that come from that. But yeah, I do think it's. It's a little different with Eric Musselman. I think just the coaching style in general is completely different and I think you know NIL kind of flattens that situation too. So it's a whole new game out there now as USC tries to do it.

Speaker 1: 3:01

Well, before we get too much into the weeds on the current program aspect, I want to ask you just a latest update what you know about Elijah Arenas, who, of course, was involved in the car accident. We've heard some recent encouraging updates. Do you have any latest updates on that?

Speaker 2: 3:17

Yeah, latest update of just being that he's walking and talking right now. I don't believe he's yet been discharged from the hospital. That should be any time soon. So really a best-case scenario, honestly, if you consider what happened. I mean this is a guy who you know he was in a burning car in which they couldn't get the windows open. I mean just the fact that one of those windows was cracked enough for these two onlookers who just happened to be there, which is also another lucky thing, um, you know if that doesn't happen, who knows where he'd be now, but all in all, no serious injuries.

Speaker 2: 3:56

Uh was just in the. I know a lot of people got worried about the coma aspect of it, but that was more just medically induced to deal with severe smoke inhalation. That's pretty common way to treat that, so all signs point to things being good. I don't expect, and you know we don't. We don't know for sure, but we haven't heard anything to suggest that this will affect him playing basketball in any way. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:18

You know, being rescued from a burning car was kind of maybe a metaphor there, carr, there's kind of a maybe a metaphor there, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 4:23

Um, because uh, usc basketball has has had now three straight incidences, uh, involving uh, big time recruits coming into the program.

Speaker 1: 4:36

Uh, and you know, uh, over on the message board at uscbasketballcom uh, there it's very well known and all all and in all USC basketball circles about the kind of the idea of like this curse of USC basketball, because you can go through a list and see, you know, all kinds of little strange things that have happened the program, things that that sort of stopped momentum in its tracks, that kind of thing.

Speaker 1: 5:04

And uh, for the website, I've always tried to de-emphasize that because you know, first of all it's like there's no, really no such thing as a curse, but but you know why, why make it more known than you have to have it known for, you know, for, uh, for the population, uh, that's observing basketball. But so my question for you is, um, uh, just these three straight years of this happening, as an observer covering the team, have you been able to ascertain any kind of feeling from the program, the people who who kind of been through the all three incidences about, just like I mean, do they feel? They feel snake bit Like? What do you sense on that?

Speaker 2: 5:46

You're referring to, like the medical emergencies.

Speaker 1: 5:49

Yeah, first, Victor, you know, Vincent Iwuchukwu, and then Bronny, and now Elijah Renis, and always with young players coming in.

Speaker 2: 5:59

Yeah, I think it's just a case of really bad luck.

Speaker 2: 6:03

I know it's especially the Vince Huachukwu Bronny James corollaries were very strange. Yeah, I talked to multiple cardiologists who were like that's a complete coincidence. It's a very strange coincidence that you know probably won't happen again, that we could expect. But I will say I think, like the fact that it happened again, usc was prepared for it when it came to bronnie. So, yeah, that certainly helped them in that regard.

Speaker 2: 6:30

But no, it is. I mean, if you believe in curses like, that's pretty good, pretty good evidence, uh, of something mystical at play here. But no, I I think this is all just kind of coincidence. And you know, obviously with Elijah you lose two of your key scores, like in the two weeks or the week prior to his accident. And I know, I'm sure you know, other than obviously being worried about Elijah and caring about where he's at, I'm sure I can get in the coach's heads and think like wow, we thought we at least had this to count on, and now we're not sure. So it's just like a lot of and you're right, I think that feeling does kind of follow USC basketball in a strange way, differently than any other basketball program that I've covered. But yeah, just complete medical coincidences.

Speaker 1: 7:23

Like there's always another shoe that might be dropping. Is the sense? Um, uh, just a couple more things before I pass it on to my compadres here. Uh, the current USC roster is in an incredible state of flux. Last year, uh, the team uh, had some great stretches, struggled at times early, had some great stretches, got hit by some injuries and a few other factors, and then maybe kind of wore down as the season went on.

Speaker 1: 7:48

Kind of a mixed bag of an opening season, different situations, as then when Enfield arrived at USC, when he kind of the program was at rock bottom, whereas USC basketball was at a pretty good place when Musselman took over. But then you also have completely different situations because you're basically shuffling through new rosters every year. So it's kind of like you're taking over a program you don't really get to inherit. You know any previous kind of rosters and all that kind of thing. I was wondering, just based on your observations um, is it does seem like this, this group of transfers coming in? More of them seem to hail from, uh, um, high major programs as compared to last year's group. What are you hearing about? Just the comparison of how the roster is shaping up now. Of course it could change every five minutes, we don't know, but based based on how it's shaping up right now, where it sits, how would you compare, like what the coaches are looking at with this roster versus what they were saying after last year's roster was put in place?

Speaker 2: 8:57

well, what's so interesting to me is that I thought that you know I've been saying all year that well, this next offseason, you know musclemen will have, you know, more return've been saying all year that well, this next off season, you know muscle men will have, you know, more returners. He won't have to rebuild the roster, you know, in a month's time, you know, he'll get a point guard that they can count on. But they turned out to have one returner, just like last year, and their biggest, their biggest addition is a combo guard that the people aren't sure he can play point guard. Yeah, it's shockingly similar, um, both times. So I, I do. I think you know it's, it's a reality, I think from a lot about college basketball coaches at this point, um, but I do think it was. They were in a much better place to rebuild this roster. Also, you have just sort of like the backing of revenue sharing that gives USC a little bit of a boost.

Speaker 2: 9:53

Now, that said, the market is so inflated right now in the basketball transfer portal that you know there were a lot of reports about. You know, Rodney Rice getting three and a half million. That's insane to me, but that's kind of the market and that's how it's been. Now I have been told there's a little bit more to it than just three and a half million straight up first year, and I think a lot of those numbers are certainly inflated by agents and get misreported and all that. But I think part part of the reason you get some of those uh, you know strong players on mid-major rosters, uh, is just that maybe they're a little bit cheaper, yeah, um, and yet maybe have, in musselman's opinion, similar talent to some of these other guys who are getting maybe twice as much. So I think that's kind of the logic behind building that way, and yet I think that's why you add.

Speaker 2: 10:52

The best way to fortify that, though, is to add a Rodney Rice, is to add a Chad Baker-Mazzara, who have high major guys who have a lot of tournament experience. I think, especially with Baker-azzara adding him here, I thought that was a huge addition, in that this wasn't just a bunch of mid major guys. Those guys can now be the depth Right and with maybe one of them stepping into the lineup, and you can let Baker Mazzara, you can let Rodney Rice, you can let Elijah Arenas play in that backcourt, and I think that roster construction is a lot more thought out than last year. You know, clearly they knew they had a rim protection problem. Eric Musselman said it from literally day one that I met him that they weren't going to be able to protect the rim. And they bring in the NCAA leader in blocks right last year.

Speaker 2: 11:42

So pretty clear like line of uh, you know, uh building in terms of muscleman and his plan. But yeah, um, I do think you know they probably would like to bring in another point card. Um, would like to have some more ball handlers. But I think in terms of marquee guys that's probably set as it is. But you know anything can change it does.

Speaker 1: 12:05

It does seem like they like to kind of have like a rebounding by committee and uh ball handling by committee versus someone sort of like uh, you know someone who's a volume rebounder or you know just a pure distributor, uh has, have you talked to to mus about just sort of like his predilection toward having guys who are maybe you know, not necessarily uh, uh, they're uh, what is it? Master, uh, you know um, good at if you what's that term? Master of none, but like uh, uh, you know good at kind of good at a little bit of all trades, you know kind of generalists, so to speak, uh versus specialists.

Speaker 1: 12:44

Has he talked about that?

Speaker 2: 12:46

well he loves he's been very clear.

Speaker 2: 12:48

He loves guys between uh six, six and six, eight, and I think you can just look at any roster he's ever had and that's, yeah, pretty clear.

Speaker 2: 12:55

He's got a type, you know there's uh athleticism, uh defense, rebounding, and I think rim protection was a big addition this year. But you they're all kind of the same guys, um, and it strikes me like guys like uh, ezra oser, like seems like a you know very, you know I haven't watched a ton of this game. It seems like just that must type, like can get rebounds, can be strong in the in the post, um, we'll add maybe a little bit of rim protection. And I think last year he really filled up on those 6'6", 6'8" guys without being able to maybe get the proper guard play that he was hoping for, plus rim protection. So I do think that he's changed a little bit of what he's looking for and that's just sort of maybe fine-t tuning from the lessons that he learned last year. But last year was so much I mean last year he hadn't even started recruiting the roster right now, yeah, which like, when you think about it, feels like oh God, they're behind this year.

Speaker 1: 13:59

They're actually way ahead. That's a great point. Yeah, he had just been hired like a couple of weeks ago at this time of year, this time of year, right yeah, so I think just knowing what you're selling helps too.

Speaker 2: 14:11

He was pretty clear about like we're learning usc on the fly. We don't really know the leaders of the athletic department that well all that stuff.

Speaker 2: 14:19

But I do think what I find most interesting about him is that he has very much like, been against the idea of adding a GM for the basketball program, because he has very strong opinions on this and he feels like he can be the GM and so far I mean, it's sort of played out that way. But we'll see how it works when this team actually comes together, because it's really impossible to know until we actually see this team on a court together.

Speaker 1: 14:46

It certainly doesn't lack the energy. Mark, do you want to ask Ryan here Some questions?

Speaker 4: 14:54

Yeah, you've kind of hit on this just in, since you're so close to the program. I'm wondering if you remember this moment and how it, how it might've affected just the discussion that we just had. I think it was after the Oregon game. Where must was? Just? He seemed super despondent. He made this comment about I'm responsible for putting together this roster. It seemed like to number one, protect the players and just basically it. You know, for a guy that's just about the his three E's. I didn't really see any of the three E's at that moment. In in in that, in that, in in that, in that comment it seemed like he had hit rock bottom. Do you think that? How much do you think that really informed the approach that we're seeing now in in assembling the roster? Or had that already, had that dial already been cast based on what he had told you going into the season?

Speaker 2: 15:39

What do you remind me of the three E's that you're referring to?

Speaker 4: 15:42

Energy enthusiasm. And I'm too old to remember the third. I'm 55 years old and I forget stuff, energy, excitement and enthusiasm.

Speaker 2: 15:52

Yes, I was going to say I have a two-year-old, so my brain has just been mushed. Okay, no, I do think there were times last year, effort.

Speaker 1: 16:05

Energy, effort and enthusiasm. That's it. That's it.

Speaker 2: 16:09

There were times last year you could feel that the construction of the team in that sense was maybe not what he'd hoped. And I think of a guy like, maybe like a St Thomas. At the beginning of last year they were pretty sure he was going to be one of their leading scorers and in the end like he just couldn't really. He wasn't really fast enough to like get past guys. He was a great passer still but like didn't really. That effort wasn't maybe always there. It was up and down or like even I think of I'm trying to think like josh cohen is a great example. Um beginning of the year they thought for sure he was going to be a major contributor. I mean he started the year as the center um they wanted him at arkansas.

Speaker 1: 17:01

It wasn't just a matter of like, oh, we got to get somebody. I mean because it was he was an early guy.

Speaker 2: 17:06

He was the first guy to commit to us at USC without the proof of concept. So you know, and then he gets there and, you know, didn't necessarily have the offensive skills that they wanted. I was kind of a liability athletically and defensively, just kind of a mess. So I think like that there were moments like that where you could tell that they couldn't really hone in so much that there wasn't really time to make a plan last year. So just sort of throwing things against the wall and seeing if it sticks. And when you think about last year it could have gone so much worse than it actually did. I mean, they find Wesley, they bring in Wesley Yates late and he was so crucial Desmond Claude was right on the edge whether they were going to get him.

Speaker 1: 17:54

That was obviously without him. I don't know where that team is. It was kind of a typical SC basketball season in a sense, where it's like, if Claude doesn't, they were just beginning to play really well and then Desmond gets hurt, he never quite comes back in full strength and so they sort of peter out, you know. But, like you said, but they also could have, like it also could have been really bad, because you know, maybe if they had gone in the tank after the slow start and wesley had, you know, wesley comes in because of uh, of terence williams getting hurt right mostly, and so it's like you have these things. It's kind of like the luck, kind of gave and take, took, gave and took uh on either direction so yeah, and I'm fascinated by terrence williams.

Speaker 2: 18:32

You know, obviously I watched him in michigan, uh, before, and mus has been very high on him. Uh, the entire season was talking about him being out of the lineup. How much this affected them, I don't. I don't really see that in terms of you know that impact, but obviously you know a good rotation player and will play a part on this year's team. He's literally the only returner. But uh must, I think, and maybe it's because he is that kind of guy, um, to your point, that kind of matches what Must is looking for.

Speaker 2: 19:05

I think getting too locked into that can be a negative too. But it does feel like, with this new roster, that they were trying to specifically address some of the things they weren't able to do in the last transfer portal build. So I think that's you know, a lot of coaches are just throwing the same thing against the wall over and over again and he hasn't done that. So that's you know, a lot of coaches are just throwing the same thing against the wall over and over again and he hasn't done that. So that's a good thing.

Speaker 4: 19:29

I kind of likened it to the guy who has a bad breakup with the artist and says, great, I'm going to go out with the CPA lady now. To that point with all kind of these, I guess gaps below the surface. If you will, looking back at that Gonzaga game Don McLean, who we love on this pod, the guy's just brilliant even though he went to the school across town. Just as good as it gets in terms of analysis. He made a great point. I'm curious what you would think about this. He thought that Gonzaga game was probably counterproductive in that it probably gave the team that this is going to be easier than it's going to be and at the same time it put the team on a lot of opponents' radars that it otherwise would not be. How much credence do you give to that insight?

Speaker 2: 20:13

That's an interesting point. I think that could certainly be true. I would say that that would be. I mean, Musselman needs to, that's on him at that point. But this team went through so many ups and downs throughout the year, like at the beginning of the season I was pretty convinced this was significantly below 500 team, um. But then by mid-season it really seemed to click like and I I respected muscleman in the sense I he will try things, you know, maybe things that seem kind of insane like at any given point. So I do think sorry, I lost the. I lost what your original question was, as I was saying that the Gonzaga win was it?

Speaker 4: 20:58

did it end up being counterproductive, do you think?

Speaker 2: 21:02

It's tough, because I do think it's important that you get confidence like that for a team like this that isn't, you know, familiar with playing together. Um, because I I wouldn't necessarily say that like any of those guys struck me as like overconfident or like playing out of themselves like I I never got that from Desmond Claude Some of the guys that came on later weren't really a big part of the team at that point, Like you know Wesley Yates, Rashawn Agee both kind of came on later. So, you know, if I had to look back I'd probably say it didn't have. If anything, I think it may have had an effect on Muscleman and the way the team was coached, Because he also didn't know what he had really.

Speaker 2: 21:53

By that point he's still kind of figuring it out and he admitted that throughout the beginning of the season that it took a while just to understand what his team was, but now that's kind of the norm in basketball every year what his team was, but now that's kind of the norm in basketball every year.

Speaker 4: 22:08

So, yeah, yeah, and it also. I'm sorry, just one more follow-up, but it also seemed like that was just an involving thing throughout the season because, like we talked about, with claude going down as well and then even going towards the last, last game of the season where saint thomas has this great game against a pretty good villanova team, it's's just. It seemed like this was a really tough puzzle to solve in terms of getting out of it. Whatever is there on the roster Fair assessment, do you think?

Speaker 2: 22:36

Yeah, and I will say I think Muscleman was so clear from the beginning. He's like this team doesn't have any point guards, it doesn't have any room protection and those are the two of the biggest problems, like all year. So uh I I think he understood what he had uh in that regard um, but yeah, I mean it'll be.

Speaker 2: 22:57

That's why I think this year is so interesting. Um, just because we can't really make that excuse for him anymore. I mean, he's had the whole offseason and I look at that actually on a different note. I kind of look at it the same way with promoting the program. I mean, he talked a big game about going out to frats and being on social media and he really started at the beginning of the season. He was having influencers at practice and all this stuff.

Speaker 2: 23:25

And that that tapered off a bit and I think you know he even acknowledged that. He said, yeah, I didn't do everything that I could and I think a part of that was because he didn't realize necessarily what he had to do at usc.

Speaker 2: 23:39

Like and I think a lot of coaches come in and I and field would probably tell you the same thing that a lot of coaches come in thinking this is USC, like they have unlimited money, like they're in LA, like this is gonna work, this is gonna just be paved for me, and it wasn't it never has been, but it's okay, because USC doesn't know what to do either usually so usually the coach usually coaches know a little bit more what to do vis-a-vis basketball, which I want to talk just a little bit about that later.

Speaker 1: 24:09

But I want to turn it over to Sky, who's got some questions for you.

Speaker 3: 24:13

You know, just to piggyback off what you just talked about, Ryan, do you think there was any intentionality in maybe next year I'll visit the frats, you know, if you mentioned how some of the things weren't quite maybe piecing together the way it must and his coaches anticipated they might, is that possibly like a little bit of a punt on the publicity of this past season?

Speaker 2: 24:41

I think it sure. I think he probably punted a little bit, if only because the basketball side of things, which is the most important, to be fair uh, demanded a lot, demanded more, I think, than than he expected, and I actually think I think that bothered him, that he wasn't able to go out and and do as much as he wanted. I mean, he brought it up like three or four times to me and I think we'll see more of that this year. But, that said, I mean, again, he has a brand new team. So it's like the basketball, I think, should always probably take precedent. But I also think that, you know, usc could probably give him more help in that regard.

Speaker 2: 25:22

You know, it doesn't have to be the coach shouldn't really be responsible for, like, upping the social media presence of a program. I just think there's more important things for him to do. Now, if he pairs off his shirt at a frat party, like, and it goes viral, or something like I don't know, are people going to go to the games, maybe. I just think like there's a lot of things to overcome just getting fans to games, um, and I think like the simplest truth is that you just look at the women's basketball team and you just are like, oh, you brought a huge superstar into the fold and now suddenly our attendance is 5x what it was two years ago, like I. I think the biggest track tragedy on that front, uh for usc is that evan mobley played at usc during the covid season that's another one of the things in the curse uh line line, the curse lineup thing because he he is by far the best player I've seen play at USC at my time and I think he would have been a massive star on campus.

Speaker 2: 26:27

Sure, I had people have been able to go to the games, but you know, that also could be optimistic, Like I. You know they've had other players that were pretty big recruits and Isaiah Collier was pretty big recruit.

Speaker 1: 26:39

But to me there's a there's a problem which I'm going to when Sky's done talking about doing his questions. I want to kind of circle back to this because it's part of my critique of the approach, in a way. So but go ahead, sky.

Speaker 3: 26:52

So, going back to the roster construction this year, as we mentioned, we thought there were going to be more players returning, perhaps and I have a couple of questions about that returning perhaps and I have a couple of questions about that. But my first question would be how much of this player attrition that has happened in this off season do you think was intentional on the part of the coaching staff and how much of it caught them by surprise?

Speaker 2: 27:18

I would say specifically, yates and Claude caught them by surprise. I think that's fair to say. The rest of the group a lot of them were out of eligibility. I think they wanted to keep Jalen Shelley and Kevin Patton. Personally, I thought they were encouraging freshmen. I saw some great things out of both. I know that they were happy with the development of those guys, but I also think they weren't that shocked that. You know.

Speaker 2: 27:52

I think like those guys like on a roster, the four-star, high three-star guys who come in and get a little exposure and like maybe show some athleticism, like you're just never going to keep those guys anymore.

Speaker 2: 28:06

They're just not going to stay because they're blocked from getting onto the roster. No one wants to be the sixth man, so they're going to go to. I mean, I think Shelly went to what Loyola Marymount. That's perfect, that's exactly what I would have expected for him and he can go there and he can be a starter and maybe he'll score 15 points a game, you know, eight rebounds, whatever. Um, he was probably never going to do that at usc. Um, now I know they would have certainly welcomed him back, but I I don't think that and I don't know how open they were with them about. You know you might be buried in the rotation. You might not get a rotation spot again this year, so that's hard to say. But with Claude and Yates specifically, like that was down to the wire in terms of those guys that agreed they were going to come back.

Speaker 2: 28:53

They had told the coaches they're coming back and teams swooped in with bigger offers and I think, like there's it's, it's tough because you can look at Yates because Yates happened before before Rodney Rice comes in, and you think, well, why didn't you just pay Yates what Rodney Rice got? But it's like a little bit more complicated than that, I think. And again, like I said before, it's hard to know exactly how the Rice, like payday sort of works out. But but I know for a fact that they thought those guys were going to come back or or were hopeful, and I mean yates told me they was going to come back. Yeah, told that, told the the whole, you know, after a press guy during a press conference said and he's locked in, so uh, that's just again kind of the reality with college basketball these days.

Speaker 2: 29:43

Like those guys, unless you're going to overpay for them, because someone will be willing to overpay for them, they're just going to go and you're going to make an argument. I mean Claude, like the word is that he wants $4.5 million, that's more than double what he made last year. They're not going to give him that, so, and maybe florida will, but usc is never gonna assumedly never gonna get to that point. So, um, I think that one frustrated them especially, uh, losing desmond, because I think they were. They were pretty hope. You know there had been conversations with Rodney Rice about them playing together. That wasn't a concern on either side.

Speaker 3: 30:27

It seemed like and then suddenly they were not on the same page. Yeah, and it seemed like maybe the communication there was kind of not very transparent, at least from Claude's camp. But regarding other players coming back, you know you have St Thomas and Rashawn Agee and of course Terrence Williams, who all didn't even take their senior day which you can do twice. I mean, DJ Rodman had two senior days, I think, one at Washington State, one at USC.

Speaker 3: 31:00

But, they were so sure that they were going to come back. They said I don't even want to do that here. Do you have any insight onto what happened with them? Supposedly, ags and Thomas's waivers were denied and with AG. It seems really weird. Because of all this stuff, we all read about the JUCO eligibility.

Speaker 2: 31:20

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:20

So both of them had their waiver initial waivers denied. I know I spoke to St last week. He is reapplying or appealing the decision and he actually, I think, might have a case, if only because at least the way he explained it and now this is what USC Compliance told him was that there was a lot of denials with people claiming mental health reasons, and the idea was to sort of thin the herd of people who had actual mental health reasons, and Saint did. I mean, if you're going to approve someone for a mental health waiver, I think he's a pretty good case. Now, that said, at one point the rules were that they wouldn't give you that if you'd played more than half the season. Now, who knows what the rules are anymore, honestly, but I know that the staff thought Saint had a better case of coming back than Rashaun, but they told both of them that we can't hold a spot for you. So, like, no hard feelings, we'd love to have you back, but like we can't like give you money or like tell you we're going to give you money which will then take away from our budget, only to find out that you're not going to play for us. So I do think that's the right decision. I mean, it's tough. I think they would want both of them back. I think, specifically AG, I think would be very helpful to have on this team, coming off the bench or, honestly, maybe even starting at the floor.

Speaker 2: 33:06

But he has a really odd case that I probably need to talk to some lawyers about because that I don't want to get too in the weeds. But there was a an injunction that was filed by a judge in New Jersey in this case for a Rutgers football player who was trying to get a fifth year non-consecutively so I believe it was over six years, which is exactly Rashawn's situation. That was what he was challenging was that the Diego Pavia case, which is the Vanderbilt quarterback, had only said that you can get that extra Juco year back as long as it's been within five years. So Jet Elad is the other player for Rutgers was just granted this for non-consecutive. Now I brought that to people who would know and was like, oh, so he's good now and they were like, well, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 34:06

So it's kind of tough. I would assume that neither of them is on the team next year at this point. Um, I do think like at this if you know, they might have a couple more roster spots available, uh, for guys that they're going to get money, like maybe they strike out on a couple guys and then saint gets his waiver approved and he's added but I don't think anyone is counting on that and I actually don't think Saint is counting on that either. When I talked to him he was basically like, well, they recruited three guys in my position, so His position is basketball.

Speaker 1: 34:39

I don't know if I want to go back there.

Speaker 2: 34:42

So I think I think Saint sees the writing on the wall a little bit. Uh. So if he is approved, I don't even know that he would go back to usc, but it the door is open for both of them, at least for now it's. It's uh, slightly ajar, put it that way that's fair.

Speaker 3: 34:57

And then, um, my last question, just in the same vein. We were talking about how they added so many wings and shored up various positions, but do you see another point guard coming on board, potentially? Maybe you've seen people who have been targeted. What are any updates on that front?

Speaker 2: 35:18

They are targeting another point guard. The guy's name is escaping me. He plays for Utah State guard um. The guy's name is escaping me he plays for utah state.

Speaker 1: 35:30

Um, I know that I can't think of it right now, but, uh, we'll get our we'll research that.

Speaker 2: 35:33

We'll research that. Yeah, please do uh, but I know I know he uh, usc is a finalist for him. Um, definitely, like a backup point guard profile, uh, and that's kind of the focus now.

Speaker 2: 35:44

I would say, uh, you know, add guards who can, can handle the ball, because you still don't have a lot of those um arguably kind of the same as last year less than I would say less than last year, yeah now, I I'm not as familiar with jerry easter's game, uh, and how much he can handle the ball, but uh, I know that they were initially expecting keontae jones to, you know, dabble in a little bit of point guard, especially after, uh, desmond left the new saint.

Speaker 2: 36:14

But but then keontae but then keontae decommits yesterday now, which was specifically related to playing time and baker maazzara coming in on the same day. So it's tough. I mean you got especially now like you. It's. It's all about the timing too when you bring these guys in and I think it's funny with the like I know that they were kind of pushing Rodney Rice to to commit so as to get Desmond excited at the idea of both of them playing together, so and then it kind of backfires the other way. Yeah, when you get baker mazara, who now kiante jones had committed before baker mazara had even entered the portal and he's really.

Speaker 1: 36:56

He's really good too. Kiante jones I really like him. He's a good player they.

Speaker 2: 37:00

They were very high on him, uh. So I think that was a definitely amer, I'm sure within the building. But I think it was also kind of a feeling like you can't really begrudge the guy. He's right, he's probably going to play less. So he wanted a starting spot or at least a high rotation spot, and he wasn't going to get it. But everyone's kind of trying to figure out how this works.

Speaker 2: 37:26

Like how do we build the team? Where do we spend money? And no one knows, and I'm not sure anyone is ever going to know at this point. I think it's going to keep changing.

Speaker 1: 37:36

So we'll see. Have you thought about, like just the way everything is now, it sort of is this great equalizer across programs. And now it sort of is this great equalizer across programs? And I mean, baylor is, you know, a high level program and they had like nobody on their roster, like what a week ago or two weeks ago? You know everyone's going through it, but to me it's sort of like um, it's, it's kind of like uh, just as an analogy, you know, they always say that like modern humans have, like, uh, evolved, uh faster than their like, their physical like they've been the same for, like you know, a hundred thousand years. In the last 20, a hundred years they've evolved faster beyond whatever they couldn't keep up physically and so on and so forth.

Speaker 1: 38:16

But it's the same with the fans and even observers, where you're like people talk about, oh, that's a good program, right, that's a good basketball program. But like what is a program that is turning over every year? Like what is the value? Like so you don't really, in effect, there are no more programs and except to the extent that you can retain players from the previous year to come, you know, to come, stay and then maybe, if you're able to do that, you can have a program, but if you're not, that's the what is then and then. If you don't have a program, then you're able to do that, you can have a program, but if you're not, that's the what is it Then? Then and then.

Speaker 1: 38:46

If you don't have a program, then you're not really like assessing the coach based on like, oh, like this is his era here, this is what he was able to do, because you're really like comparing you know, comparing Andy Enfield in 2018 versus Andy Enfield in 2023 to an entirely different sport that he, that he was coaching, right, and so so I.

Speaker 1: 39:13

I guess it's kind of like a big picture thing with college basketball and, to some extent, football like what you know is, is there going to be something to do? You think it's going to land in a way where where the idea of a program will come back, or is it just going to be like? I compare it to just like pulling the lever on a on a slot machine and you know you keep pulling that lever and eventually somebody is going to land on it. Nobody had Florida winning the national title this year going into this year, right, and it's kind of like I have no reason to believe that that Florida is going to be, in any good you know, in a similar position going into next year, unless they get lucky again with who they bring in.

Speaker 2: 39:48

I do think that while there is some flattening, especially when it comes to like Florida I mean Florida still has a lot of money you know they're not a major school or anything but I saw someone or I to finish that point I I feel like and I I know Kentucky well, it was over 10 million that they were 20, right, was it 20?

Speaker 1: 40:11

I think they have 20 million.

Speaker 2: 40:13

It's hard to know again which of those numbers are real. But yeah, I mean, you're going to get more programs doing that and other programs who are like we can't do that. So I do think that's gonna separate, uh, but I think that's a different issue from what you're bringing up of the the continuity programs existing anymore someone.

Speaker 2: 40:35

I saw this on social media the other day and I thought it was perfect that college basketball is really just uh, you know, pickup teams that change every year now and happen to like where it's like a corporate logo basically right, it's just the, the university, and honestly, like I, we, we laugh, but like, at a certain point, what are we angling towards that?

Speaker 2: 40:58

I mean, there's been a lot of conversation about college football separating as an entity and then schools licensing out their logos and whatever to for them to use a separate league and basketball.

Speaker 2: 41:14

I think you could argue that'd be easier to do, it's probably it's a lot more conducive to that.

Speaker 2: 41:20

So, yeah, now I don't know that that's going to happen, if only because the NCAA tournament is such a monolith and to separate from that would be pretty bold of the sport to do. But, like, if we really wanted to extend this to the full conclusion, like I think that's what it is, and I think, if we want to think about coaches in relation to that program building, like, and I think USC's football team is actually getting to this point where the general manager is separate, the coach is separate, uh, the coach is about the coaching, the general manager is about the construction of the team and maybe there's a world in which that's the case in basketball, but everything is moving towards that more professionalized structure and I think, like, at this point no one's willing to be like, okay, we're professionally, but maybe that changes at some point Maybe because I do think that while fans obviously would hate that, I would hate that. I also think like it would sort of divorce us from this, like nostalgic, like oh, that guy stayed four years yeah, tear off the scab.

Speaker 2: 42:31

So maybe, maybe it's better to just do that now and everyone can just get used to the fact that this is just a minor league for the nba exactly, and you know well.

Speaker 1: 42:40

There is one area though that does kind of like match the program sense and that is the fan base, the traditions, the kind of rituals that go along with that, levels of expectation, and the fan base and so forth. That puts pressure. It doesn't put pressure and in that regard, usc's been struggling. It's been this uh elixir that has, um, the combination has avoided, eluded usc for going on, you know, 70 years Right, and so um and uh, someone I'm, I'm very familiar with every aspect of this and I want to ask you, as somebody, or maybe present to you, just some observations. You know you went to university of Michigan. Those students you guys are, you guys are on the sidelines right Over there, michigan, those students, you guys are on the sidelines right Over there, michigan, on the side.

Speaker 1: 43:30

You know, for the basketball games. Right, your students are on the sidelines right.

Speaker 3: 43:32

Yes.

Speaker 1: 43:33

Okay, so I think USC basketball, as an infrastructure, has been trying to attract fans to either the sports arena or Galen Center. They're trying to attract their alumni base, a big chunk of whom lives in Orange County, places that are like really hard. People are not going to come to games for two hours on a Thursday night, fight traffic and all that kind of stuff. So it's my theory that there's two buckets that they should be focusing on. One is obvious, which is the students, and you know they've already talked about Musk going in and firing them up. You know from day one. You know hammering into them the idea that this is where they're going to be on. It used to be Thursday and Saturday or whatever, but I don't know. Whatever day it is now, and to me I think they've fallen off with that Like. To me, I think they should be moved back to the sideline, especially in Galen, where it's, like you know, I think to get the students there, there's going to have to be more like a little bit of incentive. But the other thing is that, rather than trying to get the existing fan base to come out to the games, our existing USC fans, a lot of people who like football, hey, you know, here's a football ticket. Hey, you get a free basketball ticket If you go to the football game, whatever. Why not just create a new fan base out of people who are actually within range of going to Galen on on a given night, especially a USC?

Speaker 1: 44:58

Los Angeles is arguably the basketball capital of the world. I mean it's the NBA players. Come work out. They live there in the off season. You know they have all these great the Drew leagues and all that stuff.

Speaker 1: 45:09

There could be an attempt to attract people within a 10 mile radius of the school to make USC basketball an affordable alternative to their other entertainment options and allow them to claim USC as their home team. And when I think about Michigan having sellouts at their arena, it's like people who live in Ann Arbor. Maybe some people are coming from Detroit a bit, but I'm sure the big chunk of it's people who live right there in Ann Arbor and you're not getting people you know fighting two hours traffic to come to the game, probably. So I guess the question not really a question, but like do you have any sense that this is something that they, that you think that would work? First of all, understanding going in that they're going to try to make some sort of innovative efforts to to attract players or attract fans to the game, versus kind of the old tried and true stuff which which doesn't really work.

Speaker 2: 46:15

That's a great question and I I would. That's definitely something I want to look into more this summer. Just about their marketing strategy. With that, I you know there's a lot to talk to mus about. Yeah, last year that wasn't that um. But I think like to your point. Initially, the student says that that's the obvious spot to low hanging fruit.

Speaker 2: 46:36

Low hanging fruit yeah, and though that student section should be full every single game, I just I don't find there to be any excuse for that to be empty and there were multiple times this season in which it was a quarter full, like that sort of thing. So that's, that's ridiculous. They can come up with a way to solve that. Now, the other surrounding areas kind of tough, just like geographically, where USC's campus is, there's not like I mean, you have downtown right there. That's kind of like you're not really getting a ton of people living down there. And obviously south of campus is certainly an area that you could you know mine into. I think like USC as an institution has and this is like a deeper commentary probably on the university but they've been reluctant to reach into south la. I think I would say it's fair to say uh, in the way that maybe they should.

Speaker 1: 47:34

But I think of you know on that front, like when I watched usc ucla women I believe that was on a thursday uh, that place was rocking and it was all of South LA felt like it was there exactly because you have local, you have local players, uh, and you're kind of, but I'm sorry to interrupt, but but the other point I want to make is that, like this idea I think you mentioned earlier about like oh, juju Watkins is there, right, a big star in college women's college basketball, and that draws fans, usc gets somebody. But to me that just creates one-off situations. Right, you get the. You know when Juju's, if she doesn't play next year, the crowds will the crowds be as good, you know, and you want actually so.

Speaker 1: 48:24

To me it's like I think you want sustainable crowds, right, where they're coming not because they want to see the freak show or some gimmick or some celebrity which is actually another critique I have which is like you know, I think on their social media recently was like which celebrity do you want us to hang out with or to talk to this year? And I'm like that's gimmicks. I know you want to tie in with Hollywood, but it's got to be basketball if you really want to keep. You know, get the diehards to come out.

Speaker 2: 48:48

Sorry, remind me of your question.

Speaker 1: 48:49

No question, I'm just like I'm just like saying, like the, the one-off thing of the of it's like it's like these are all like these tempting sort of routes to go to try to juice or to try to get you know your crowd better, you know so.

Speaker 2: 49:07

Yeah, and I think you're right.

Speaker 2: 49:08

I mean, I, I you're right in the sense that you can't really recreate the juju magic, because juju has to stay for four years, yeah, so that's like that is a huge part of it.

Speaker 2: 49:15

Uh, you can sort of organically build that and I guess the question is, like, can usc ever build that? Yeah, if that's the case, like, if you need a superstar, they're going to be gone in a year, uh, and if you bring in, let's say you bring in three straight superstars, like a perfect scenario, yeah, I don't know that the same people are going to come to every game. Like in that sense, in the same sense that you know, juju kind of had this groundswell of support, um, so I don't know that that's a problem you can solve. In the same way, now that we're kind of gaming it out, uh, because I do think you're right, like it's been a lot of gimmicks and you know I, I think they've been very pleased with, uh, like in stadium stuff and uh, I think, you know I I'm not the biggest DJ Malski fan, but that said, that said, I do think there are some people that enjoy that. He's very polarizing, he's very polarizing, yeah.

Speaker 1: 50:16

But Petros Papadakis used to be the, the PA announcer and he was polarizing. To me it's like, in a sense. To me it's like USC has always looked they would never like with football. They would never like go out on a limb and get some. You know they. Football it's always the idea is like we're going first class with this, whereas basketball it's like I don't know who. Should we have a Petros? Let's get Petros to do the PA or let's oh, we have this guy wants to be a DJ here. Ok, that maybe that's something different, let's do that. But it's kind of like. It's the I think you're right the in-game experience which is and it helps the fans like dj mousky, like people might like dj mousky, the fans might like, but they don't create a hostile environment. He doesn't create a hostile environment for the, for the opposing team, which is what you really want to create, right he creates a hostile environment.

Speaker 2: 51:04

On press row but no, you're right not, not so much, not so much with the opposing team, and I do think like it's tough because ivan galen is a good arena. Um, I think, like for usc and it like the crowds, that it would presumably get at its best, like that is an ideal arena and you know place and setting and where it is. But uh, yeah, this is, this is a question that has eluded me for the past five or so years, I think. I wrote about it a while ago and have since like gone dove back into the topic like how do we make usc basketball thing, and just sort of come out of it being like no one has the answers still well, if you, if you write this story again, interview you talk to me, I'll give you some good quotes so we can plant those ideas, because I actually gave a lot of these ideas.

Speaker 1: 51:57

Uh, they actually asked, uh, the staff asked me for some ideas and I I sent along a whole laundry list and and I think it was like, uh, you know, just put this. You know they're very busy, very busy people, right.

Speaker 2: 52:09

So it's like you only do so much, but it's tough because I do think to my previous point. Like you got to focus on the basketball first the product has to be good yeah so there has been a lot of work on that front that has needed to be done and, yeah, I'm not sure Andy Enfield in his 10 years really like solidified that part of it. Um, he won, though he won.

Speaker 1: 52:32

I mean he pretty much won and he had, he had different groups of, like, good players, you know, uh, NBA guys and, and it was almost like uh, there really wasn't that. You know. Like now you have muscle with this energy, though, so maybe, maybe things can be different.

Speaker 2: 52:47

Yeah, I wouldn't say Andy had that energy. No, who does?

Speaker 1: 52:52

That energy isn't for everyone. You know what?

Speaker 2: 52:54

I mean, yeah, I think you could probably find some people in Mus's past who had very strong feelings about that.

Speaker 1: 53:01

Yes, yes, another maybe polarizing kind of guy At times. If, unless any of you guys have any other questions, I just wanted to get to some really quick message board questions, I'll throw them at you, ryan, and then we can get you out here. I know we've had you for quite a bit, mark and Sky. Anything else to ask?

Speaker 4: 53:18

No.

Speaker 3: 53:19

One thing just to follow up on the Utah State point guard that you discussed. Ryan is Dayton Albury.

Speaker 2: 53:28

Yes, that's the guy.

Speaker 3: 53:29

Yeah, his finalists are SC and New Mexico.

Speaker 2: 53:33

Hmm, Yep, he is definitely a guy who's kind of. As I understand it, he's probably the next decision to be made on that front, and I think we'll probably get a bit of a lull after that, it seems like.

Speaker 3: 53:51

But but again things change every day.

Speaker 1: 53:54

All right, all right. A few, just a few, quick message board questions from fast Eddie final four. Do we have any overseas recruitment going on or do you think the pro, the program has any plans on establishing contacts in Europe and looking elsewhere for potential players? Any word on that?

Speaker 2: 54:08

That's a. That's a good question. I've never asked about that. I am trying to run through. What I know of must is Arkansas rosters. I don't believe there was much of a presence in that way, but that would be an interesting. I kind of want to ask him now, cause he seems like he would be. I mean he when he was working in the CBA like way back in his 20s as a GM, his whole thing was that he mined Europe and you know, asia and stuff for all these guys who maybe were previous pros that had sort of their careers had gone off track and um built a winner that way. So I I wouldn't, I wouldn't doubt that he'd be willing to do that now. Like, is that the most prudent use of the program's funds? Are there big prospects overseas that are better than the ones he could get in the LA area? I don't know, um, but that is an interesting question I'll have to ask him.

Speaker 1: 55:09

Very good, Thank you, Uh. Eecs 2284 asks what's the story behind USC basketball? Usc basketball has increased NIL budget and is it sustainable? I know that's probably a big story, so maybe just, uh, you know, a few thoughts.

Speaker 2: 55:24

I. What's the story behind it?

Speaker 1: 55:27

growing Well yeah, Like you know, did it what? What do you ascribe? Maybe perhaps the the reason for that Um and it you know the reports are as like eight to 10 million is is the budget. Uh, I think that Matt Norlander reported that. Do you find that? Do you find that number? You know to jibe with what, what you've uh seen or heard, and do you think that's something that, again, like you think it's a sort of like, hey guys, I really I can't. You know, I need to get, you know, get a good team here, and is it like, basically, you think this is a permanent commitment, I guess for usc basketball?

Speaker 2: 56:02

well, I think just the fact that revenue sharing presumably is going to follow the, the model of the. I'm trying, I don't want to get the percentages wrong, 20 or whatever.

Speaker 2: 56:15

Yeah, I think it was 75, 25 or 80, 15, 5 or something like that, or 80, 10, 5, 85, 10, 5 anyway, um, everything I've heard now usc has been like very hush hush about how they want to handle revenue sharing and the figures on that we may never find out for sure, being that it's private school, but I do think that's been a part of it. Uh, you know that money is like uh for in usc's situation that's like a pretty good infusion from where it was, so that's already built in. Plus, there has been a little bit more of a groundswell of like effort by musclemen and the staff to, I think, cater to that a little bit more. I think they understand how important that is. Little bit more. I think they understand that, how important that is. Um, I know, I, I know I can't remember if he's technically a hughes grant gustafson, I think is his name uh, remember that wayne hughes's grandson, uh, I know is a big basketball supporter.

Speaker 2: 57:24

Uh, that doesn't help or doesn't hurt. Yeah, um, so I I have. You know, there have been more people stepping up on that front. Now, whether it's sustainable, it's hard to say, but I get the impression that, again, revenue sharing is going to smooth that out a lot more. So I do think that will be that part of it will be sustainable and it's only going to go up every year just based on the percentage of it will be sustainable and is only going to go up every year just based on the percentage of the average revenue.

Speaker 1: 57:54

Yeah, they should try to give a billionaire an honorary degree and see if they can capture him. Last question this one's kind of like. This question is a little provocative and the premise is I don't agree with the premise, but I want to ask it to you so that you can take the opportunity to disabuse some fans of certain notions. Okay, okay, um, and you know, if, if, uh, if you don't like the question, we don't have to use it. So, uh, sc the one asks do you perceive your times of Troy column that it has improved your image among SC fans? Because you were previously perceived by some to always be digging up dirt on SC, to show more scandals, to sell more papers and get more clicks.

Speaker 2: 58:40

Interesting. Yeah, well, great to hear people are reading the Times of Troy newsletter Love. That it's funny. I I always found that because I you know that hearing that people perceive me that way is not a surprise to me. Uh, you know, I certainly like my, a lot of my reporting has kind of, you know, over the course of the last six years, has you know there have been some investigations that have ruffled some feathers which I get. Uh, it's just kind of usc was sort of in that place. I mean I think it kind of just called for that sort of reporting. Um, I think that you know, literally the year before I came was varsity blues and the you know all of the other like much more serious scandals. Yeah, um, so I was kind of coming in the wake of that.

Speaker 1: 59:27

But which is another line, another line on the curse list, by the way, the mountain thing.

Speaker 2: 59:33

Yeah, they pop up all the time.

Speaker 2: 59:35

Exactly, but I'm glad to hear people find that the newsletter is more to their taste. That's good constructive criticism that I'll take. Not that I'm going to change my approach to finding the truth in other senses, but I just think usc, uh, athletics have just been kind of a mess, uh, since I took over, and I think like a lot of that had to do with the leadership of the department. Um for sure, football program was, you know, in tatters. Uh, I, you know, I I still hear it from football fan fans that're too hard on the coach, or I've been told that I'm too soft. We don't ask hard enough questions. I'm bouncing back and forth between am I too mean or too nice?

Speaker 2: 1:00:22

But the newsletter, it's funny, the newsletter. When I first started writing it actually was. I was getting emails from people saying I was being too negative and too opinionated for a reporter. But now apparently it's changed. So I will say I will say maybe that's just because covering basketball is like maybe a little bit more pleasant of an experience. Sure, I think football in some ways sets itself up to be adversarial, so sometimes you kind of have to handle it as a hostile witness.

Speaker 3: 1:00:53

Yeah, In that way.

Speaker 2: 1:00:57

So there are times when it feels like that and but you know I'll always stand by my reporting. I know people are always going to think that you know I'm searching for negativity, but you know USC has just had a lot of negativity over the course of the last several years. I personally think the leadership of the department has taken a major turn and you have a lot of people in charge now who know what they're doing, have a plan, who know what they're doing, have a plan. I will forever, I will never forget Mike Bone and I talking when USC's first collective kind of emerged and he wouldn't admit to me that it existed and I kept asking him and telling him like this is where it's going, and he's like I don't know what you're talking about, I've never heard of that. Oh geez. And just thinking where we are now from then. And that was literally just like three years ago, two years ago. So a lot has changed at usc.

Speaker 1: 1:01:59

As someone who who spent seven years working the working in the athletic department has been an athletic department adjacent for most of the last 25 years. Um, yeah, you're spot on. There's really, you know, there's really the. From what I've heard, there's been a rise in the professionalism aspect of it, but for the most part everything was pretty slapdash for most of the time. So, but yeah, well, ryan, thanks for coming on the show, really appreciate it. We had you for quite a while, so really appreciate you taking the time. And for those of you out there who want to watch and are sorry to read some great coverage of USC basketball, be sure to check out his Times of Troy column, which is again, I love the format of that Reminds me of the old blog days. You can catch them at xcom, at ryan underscore, carchi and, uh, I think is there any other spots where you uh, where you can be read?

Speaker 2: 1:02:56

uh, right, besides just just latimescom so uh subscribe if, if you can and uh love the uh times of troy love, so I I appreciate it. We are going on a bit of a summer hiatus for now, with less sports going on, but we will be back, and better than ever, in July.

Speaker 1: 1:03:16

Well, hopefully you don't have very much to write about USC basketball. Hopefully you can go on whatever vacation you have planned and we can all do the same. Please knock on all the wood that you have, awesome All right. Well, thanks Ryan for joining us.

Speaker 2: 1:03:33

Yeah, thanks for having me guys Anytime. Thanks so much, ryan, appreciate it. Thanks, ryan.

Speaker 1: 1:03:38

All right guys, good job guys. Yeah, that was good. Good, lots of insight there, some good little nuggets Boy. We talked for a while, though we talked for a good hour and four minutes, do we?

Speaker 4: 1:03:56

have anything left in the tank? I do. I'd rather just go on. Yeah, let's go on. Do you want to tap out? No, no.

Speaker 1: 1:04:00

It's power through. I'm just checking with you guys. It's power through. Yeah, exactly, we'll go ahead. Let's talk about these new players we have. Go ahead, anybody? Let's talk about these, um, uh, these new players we have at USC? Uh, we have uh.

Speaker 1: 1:04:15

Well, the last time we talked uh, on our last episode, uh, the roster is completely different now, of course, uh, but in the in the meantime, of course, the headline pickup has been Rodney Rice, uh, from Maryland, who we saw uh, uh, over in in College Park. You know, really good player really to me. Just when I found out we got him, I was pretty happy because he's kind of just, it's kind of like a real winner out there, just a hard-charging, energetic player. He's going to bring the three E's for sure. Also, probably the next guy who was maybe just a little bit less prominent but still very important Chad Baker Mazzara, who's a wing out of Auburn. Rice averaged 14 points, 37 from three-point land, and Chad Baker Mazzara averaged 12 points and I think he shot almost 40% from three points somewhere around there. But Chad Baker Mazzara 6'7", 180, was in the final four.

Speaker 1: 1:05:16

Ronnie Rice, maryland had a really good year. So with these two guys, we're looking at something very different than last year's transfer class. You have two guys that played at the highest levels in very big situations, and so there's really no question mark as to whether they can do it, which is a question mark that we had for a lot of guys last year. Any thoughts on those two guys, just as for starters?

Speaker 3: 1:05:46

Great, super high-level additions. You know Rodney Rice, they loved him in Maryland and he seems like a fairly level-headed guy. I Tech and then I think he sat out the following season and then he transferred to Maryland. But you know it was a great get at that time for USC and he was going to now be kind of the combo lead guard type.

Speaker 3: 1:06:24

His game, not to say he's a carbon copy, but he reminds me more of Boogie, you know, in terms of just his ability to get to his spots and uh, create shots for himself yeah, I agree.

Speaker 4: 1:06:37

Yeah, it's um, I'm, I'm just delighted with this just before we get to the metrics. Um, that maryland game was a tough one and that was, you might remember, like that was kind of the pivotal game. It was like our last chance to to make a run to the tournament and, yeah, um was our Waterloo he, yeah, this guy is really gone and I I think we saw this maybe a little bit with DJ Rodman just going from the F that guy to like I'm so glad he's on my team guy.

Speaker 1: 1:07:05

Yeah, um the guy you don't want to play against but you're very, very happy oh, I, oh, I hated, I hated him last year. I was like God, that guy just annoys me.

Speaker 4: 1:07:13

Yeah, yeah, and and yeah, but delighted he's on the team now. Yeah, bpo 56.1, which would have led our team Buscar of a hundred, which would have led the team as well, and this is in our conference, with only one swing on the West coast. So it's, you know, this guy knows how to, how to get it done in all the big 10 venues, which is, I mean, my goodness, how much we would have wanted.

Speaker 4: 1:07:44

You know, somebody with that resume on this team last year, yeah, no, absolutely Also sorry, Sorry, just one more thing takes really good care of the ball turnover percentage of 7.1%, which is just beautiful, microscopic, very productive, on on on pretty low usage less than um 20 opportunities per 40 minutes, which would put him about fourth or fifth on our team um last year as well.

Speaker 1: 1:08:09

So really efficient. Yeah, and he's the putative point guard he's going to start at the. We'll just call him the lead guard, lead ball handler for this team. He can definitely handle the ball but again, not a traditional point guard. I would say he's an upgrade from the ball handling perspective from Claude, who was a guy who was an excellent ball handler for his size, but from a from a just a pure objective standpoint as a point guard.

Speaker 1: 1:08:39

When you're that height, you know you're dribbling higher and and, and you know he had a lot of responsibility to shoulders and so it was some. You know it resulted in some sloppiness at times. So you're looking at a guy who I think has a tighter dribble, is quicker. The advantage is he's quicker. He's obviously not going to bring the same kind of size and physical nature that Claude brings, but I think there's other players who bring that as well. So you don't necessarily need to have that in your point guard, but he is six foot four, so quick guy, very explosive I think, and I think that that he's going to really, I think, push the tempo and and and push the agenda for whatever Musa's game plan is in a certain game, very, very different from Desmond Claude too, in that well over half of his shots were three-pointers yeah, that's a great point, he.

Speaker 1: 1:09:34

He brings some a little bit of volume to his, his, his three-point game, right. He, I think he averaged what I think was like five, five per game that he attempted more than that, almost seven, almost seven. Okay, yeah, he attempted 214 in 32 games, so just under seven, yeah, so I'm remembering that a little bit spreads the court out, which we kind of lacked a lot of times last season, yeah, and then, uh, chad baker mazara, from auburn again, uh, I think if there's a nickname for this program, let's call it wing stop.

Speaker 1: 1:10:08

But uh, uh, he's a another wing, but he's a guy who could probably play, you know, multiple positions. Given the situation average 12 points, three boards, almost three assists for Auburn last year. He can stroke it from three, really kind of lankyanky just, you know, pretty athletic, good defender, long arms, kind of just harasses people, you know. So it's pretty emotional. Um, maybe he could be the most emotional guy we have on the roster since, uh, nick Rokosevich, maybe, or even, unless you consider Kobe, unless you consider Kobe Johnson to be in that vein, I don't know, he was a low key emotional guy Chimezi met to hit.

Speaker 3: 1:11:06

Oh yeah, and you know I was saving this, but since it just came up, this is a new segment I wanted to introduce Great nut shots of USC basketball history. Shenanze Metu versus Washington State, but even more notable, Leonard Washington against Blake Griffin.

Speaker 4: 1:11:29

That's your leader in the clubhouse, probably all time.

Speaker 1: 1:11:32

Oh my God, it looks to me like rice. And Baker Mazzara are two guys you could you could pretty much pen ink in S as starters, maybe Baker Mazzara? I mean I think he's going to start, if he doesn't, then he's the sixth man. But those are two guys coming in as starters, and then there was a third.

Speaker 4: 1:11:56

Just some numbers on him real quick. Oh sorry, please, if I might. Actually, I hired BPO last season for Baker Mazzara over Rodney Rice in what is pretty clearly the best conference in basketball last year. It's a basketball conference, sec. Yeah, in what is pretty clearly the best conference in basketball last year. It's a basketball conference, sec. Yeah, it's a basketball conference. Oh yeah, absolutely Higher Piscar as well.

Speaker 4: 1:12:19

More assists per 40 than Rodney Rice, a little bit higher turnover percentage, but less than 10%, which I'm great with Interested to see. I wonder how much of that higher assist total is. Just because Auburn is such a a ball movement heavy kind of. It seems like everybody's going to get a few assists per game almost. But if we can do you know 90 seconds on this where we arm wrestle this one out, I think I'd I'd take him over Keontae and I love what Keontae bring on on defense and rebounding. But I think there's so much of a pressure release with Baker Mazzara and Rice on the court at the same time that we just I don't know it felt like last year's offense was a pimple that was just waiting to be popped. Everything was just compacted in there and this is just the sweet release of the chiropractor, opening up the offense here.

Speaker 1: 1:13:11

We had nut shots earlier and now we're talking about sweet releases. But you know the thing is, the only question I have with Baker Mazzara is well, first of all, you're right, he is unlike you. Know, keontae Jones wasn't a three-point guy, right, but Mazzara is. But again, he's not a guy who shoots a lot. He doesn't shoot a lot of three-pointers, though, right.

Speaker 4: 1:13:39

About four a game.

Speaker 1: 1:13:41

Yeah, so not a huge amount, right? So he makes, like you know, 1.5 three-pointers per game, so not this groundbreaking. He's a threat. Obviously he's a guy you have to account for on the outside for sure. But you know, does he? Is that going to be something he's going to do a lot of? Is he going to shoot more three-pointers this year? And if he does, does he maintain the percentage and so on and so forth? So those are my questions there. And you know, one of the things I did like about County Jones was he definitely did not lack for the athleticism. He was a guy who was a springy guy and really had really fantastic control of his body. But just you know, I think he kind of did what St Thomas did, which was to bring the rebounding as well as the assists and all that kind of stuff. So that would have been nice to have, for sure.

Speaker 3: 1:14:36

I agree with you on that, and it was interesting actually what Ryan said that Keontae Jones might have been used in kind of a spot point guard role, which I could definitely see. Baker Mazar are also extremely athletic and extremely long. I mean just watching highlights of him.

Speaker 1: 1:14:57

His arms are so long and that guy can really finish above the rim um, he's kind of like, you know, muslin has a type, it's kind of like a guy who, who, likes a certain type of gal and you know you see them walk by, he's gonna, he's gonna go holler, and you know whether you know. So I think that's kind of, you know, you got a six, seven wing, you can shoot and defend. It's like, oh yeah, let's go get a little bit like a fully formed jaylen shelly kind of yeah about the body type.

Speaker 1: 1:15:29

Yeah, that's a great, you know jaylen shelly was highly explosive.

Speaker 3: 1:15:32

I don't know, numbers wise, how baker mazara compares, but in terms of the eye test.

Speaker 1: 1:15:37

Yeah, I can get up, yeah for sure.

Speaker 3: 1:15:39

Um, he's a good defender, you know he played under bruce pearl. It will be interesting to see if muscleman can kind of bring him on board and rein in any kind of hot-headed tendencies. Because, last year's team under Musselman really gelled and I would say quite rarely made mistakes like that. There were a few technicals that were really questionable from the refs. But you know, will this year's team gel in the same way?

Speaker 1: 1:16:12

And Musk was a good boy too. He wasn't jumping on scourge tables and stuff like that. Maybe that all changes this year.

Speaker 3: 1:16:18

Yeah, that felt like maybe that was some growth from him or something intentional that he wasn't. He didn't really freak out at the refs that much you know, I mean certainly not on the level of what Mick Cronin does.

Speaker 1: 1:16:31

Yeah, maybe he didn't want to scare people off. He was like you know, you got these, these, uh, these blue hairs sitting and sitting in the right, right, right after right behind him. You know, it's like he doesn't want to. You know, like, even when you, when you've only got 2 000 people watching, you don't want to make 20 leave, you know, um, so, uh, okay, two other guys, um, that came in, uh, recently, uh, since our last podcast, one of them, ezra.

Speaker 1: 1:16:54

I saw ezra alsar from I say ausa because I, uh, I forgot to put the r on the website. I'm looking at it, but anyway, as ezra alsar, six, seven, 230 pounder, uh, from utah, tough big. He averaged 12.5 boards for Utah last year. Again, a high, major guy Played in the Big 12. I am skeptical of his listed height. He looks to me a lot. Speaking of Leonard Washington, he looks to me very much like a Leonard Washington type guy. As far as from a size standpoint, he might. Where's my cup? Yeah, probably, uh, six, six, I would say, um, maybe. Even I bet if they measured him in in uh, in, in, uh, bare feet, he might be six, five and three quarters.

Speaker 1: 1:17:45

Who's the guy for? Um? Who's the guy for for utah, that was from, uh, compton, compton magic, that, oh that big dude, he wasn't. No, not, he wasn't that big. No, the guy he was, um, just like three years ago he was on, he went to texas, he transferred to texas. Who's that guy? Timmy allen. Timmy allen, you know, he's kind of like he, he, you know, timmy allen was listed at six, seven or something like that and he was like six, five. You know what I mean just the. But anyway, he plays bigger than his size, regardless. He plays as if he's six, seven, but he's not. Uh, I think he's a good player, I think he's um, brings some toughness, some rebounding, uh, to the equation. And again you have another guy who is up Musselman's alley as far as height and length and all that kind of stuff, but definitely an athletic kind of dude. What do you guys think of Ezra El-Sar?

Speaker 3: 1:18:43

Well, to your point earlier, Chris, where Musselman has a type, this guy looks basically like almost exactly what we thought we were getting from Rashawn, agee, right, and then Agee surprised everyone with the three-point shooting. I don't know.

Speaker 1: 1:18:59

Not you, not me, not you because you saw it in practice.

Speaker 3: 1:19:03

I saw it in practice in the scrimmage.

Speaker 1: 1:19:06

We broke the news. We were the first media to break the news that Rashawn AG could stroke the three.

Speaker 3: 1:19:12

I think we were and he really did a great job he did. I'm sad to see him go, but you know, allsir, to this point, has not been that three-point shooter.

Speaker 3: 1:19:22

Maybe he does work on that over the summer. But he looks similarly kind of like an undersized, pugnacious power forward, very explosive, um strong, and so I'm really excited for what he can bring. And I think actually the addition of baker mazara really helps his game, because if claude had stayed does clog up the paint a little bit more, and now when you have these two guys as guards, lead guards, and then plus Arenas, who can really stroke it from anywhere on the floor, that lets Ossard get in there, cut, mix it up in the paint.

Speaker 4: 1:20:08

Second derivative kind of similarities to ag2 in that when we were previewing the, the roster, this time about 11 months ago, let's say, um, not the most efficient big guy bpo, 46 um, although he was second in usage on utah, in in in opportunities per 40, which you might remember, I remember I had said about AG gosh, if this guy wasn't, you know, wasn't so asked so much offensively, he might be able to be more efficient.

Speaker 4: 1:20:36

And we totally saw that until, basically, they asked a lot of them at the end of the season when we ran out of scores, not Yates, um. So I I think you know you make a good point about the, the um, the perimeter, uh, play clearing up the middle for a guy like this. I also think that, like I just mentioned, this guy, alsar, has more usage per 40 than Baker Mazzara did last season. We'd love to see that flip and really just let him be more efficient, just like we saw Different path, obviously, you know from from AG would have been second rebounds per 40 on USC last year and actually second in usage on USC's team, which is, you know, for a guy that doesn't really is not that efficient you know just a, just a kind of a right size into that could really, I think, pay dividends here.

Speaker 3: 1:21:27

Yeah. And then one thing that I forgot to bring up but last year we talked about how a lot of these mid-major transfers, well, they're not going to average the same number of points as they did at their previous school yeah, and it could actually be the opposite with guys like Rice and Baker Mazzara. Because those guys were playing particularly Rice, you know he was probably like the third or fourth option on his team. Yeah, because those guys were playing particularly Rice, you know he was probably like the third or fourth option on his team. Yeah, and he might even score more, which actually Claude did, I think too. Yeah, but we could see something of that type of effect with these two guys.

Speaker 1: 1:22:03

Exactly. And then the fourth guy who's wait? Did we look at Alsar's numbers, mark?

Speaker 3: 1:22:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:22:10

Oh, you did Okay, sorry, thank you for paying attention.

Speaker 4: 1:22:14

Yeah, yeah, no, sorry.

Speaker 1: 1:22:16

That's okay, I had to answer a text, okay. So our fourth guy we brought in since our last podcast was Gabe Dines. 7'3", 225-pound junior out of Youngstown State. Averaged 7.6 boards, three blocks last year, I think nation's leading shot blocker, at least returning, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:22:37

Uh, the way I see him is. I mean, I haven't he looked decent enough for a seven foot three guy, um, playing at a small school. He certainly isn't, uh is not a stiff. I wouldn't call him a stiff Um, he obviously has some limitations, but he's got stuff he can't teach, which is height and length.

Speaker 1: 1:22:59

And so it seems to me that, I see, I don't think he I'd be surprised if he was a, you know, a 20, 25 minute per game kind of guy. I feel like he's like a 15 middle to high teens kind of guy who will come in in you know, certain situations perhaps maybe he gets a lot of minutes in games where, as he's protecting a lead to get up and now they can try to just hunker down defensively. Or there are situations where like, oh, you're down to the last, to the last shot, right, and, and you know you want to clog the middle and make sure no one gets a shot off that kind of that kind of thing. So, but it is intriguing because USC hasn't really had a guy of this, this size.

Speaker 1: 1:23:46

Um, you know, I can't remember, remember the last guy that was, there's nobody. I don't think he was like seven foot, I don't think any.

Speaker 4: 1:23:55

I don't think se's ever had a seven three guy wow, okay, uh.

Speaker 1: 1:23:58

Well, no, there is one guy um luke, maybe luke minor. He, I think he was seven.

Speaker 3: 1:24:02

Two, remember luke minor oh my gosh, the other minor, the other minor in usc basketball history.

Speaker 1: 1:24:09

different spelling m, m-i-n-o-r. Luke Minor, which is again the ironically named Luke Minor, little John, little John, exactly, but what do you think? I mean a 7'3 guy. You know we're going to get more shot blocks. Our block shots are for sure this year. I mean, I can see, um, when you combine him with what amari and dickerson dickerson can do, uh, shot blocking wise uh. And then also you know just the length of some of the other we're gonna. I feel like we might potentially like double our block shots this year yeah, absolutely, and that's not hard to do.

Speaker 3: 1:24:48

I think Dines is an excellent pickup. You know the challenge, but the opportunity with him is like you're saying. Regarding his minutes, chris, he might not be a super high minutes guy, but you want to keep him ready because in the Big Ten there are going to be those matchups where he's really going to be needed. You have someone like Adeyemara who he will face in Michigan. Right, he needs someone who can go up against that kind of guy at least for part of the game. Great point, someone who can defend him. And that was a big issue with Eiji Great player, but just size-wise it was a big, literally a tall task for him to defend.

Speaker 1: 1:25:35

Yeah, it was a big, literally a tall task. Yeah, he's not gonna let you know. There's a day mara's not going to be able to like lean over the back of gabe dines to get rebounds, like he did in some.

Speaker 3: 1:25:41

No dines is. Dines is taller actually and, uh, I think he moves better, just from what I've seen now, if we're comparing these two players. He might not have all the various other skills that Mara has, but I love that.

Speaker 1: 1:25:54

He just dunks pretty much everything and that's what you want a guy like that to do. So the Trojans now have 10 players on roster. Sorry, Mark.

Speaker 4: 1:26:03

Sorry, just a couple numbers on him. Not the most efficient guy. Even though he shoots 70% from the field because my guy really struggles to take care of the ball turns it over 18% of the time. I think the best analog I've had and this guy has been in our past a lot across conferences would be Braxton Mia. Who's a better shot blocker?

Speaker 1: 1:26:27

Okay, I mean yeah, yeah, I'd take that, I'd take that.

Speaker 3: 1:26:33

Mia had his moments. Definitely, I think we did. We talk about Brownell as well. We need to. Yeah, we got to get to Brownell. Oh, we didn't talk about him.

Speaker 4: 1:26:39

We didn't cover him, we talked about him. No, we're saving this one. You guys wanted to do the pod before the pod and I, I want to hear Mark's Mothman Prophecies theory.

Speaker 3: 1:26:49

Yeah, let's get the.

Speaker 1: 1:26:51

Bernal notes from Mark here. So this is what's fascinating to me.

Speaker 4: 1:26:56

Well, hold on.

Speaker 1: 1:26:58

Before we do that, I want to enter. Jaden Bernal, of course, is a 6'10", 230-pound senior who played at the University of Samford or Samford University last year averaged 14 points and four boards. Go ahead, mark.

Speaker 4: 1:27:09

Really efficient guy BPO 55, 55, um, his buscar of 78 would have been second on this team and what's just absolutely nuts is he did that playing 21 minutes a game and buscar is accounting. It's a cumulative stat. So yeah, I'm, this is just I. I'm, first of all, I'm fascinated. What on earth did this team, just this whole team, do on offense last year? It sounds like a helter skelter, super up-paced thing. I um, I see this guy just to go really old school, a six foot ten, vinnie johnson, just instant offense off the bench. Um, I kind of like bringing him and and dines in the same time off the bench, just so you get like a complimentary outside. I mean he shot what? Almost 40% from three Good free-throat shooter.

Speaker 4: 1:27:54

I kind of like bringing those two guys in at the same time, where you have instant offense and then a good defender. That are just so complimentary, right, you know, just two guys at the same time off the bench. Yeah, takes care of the ball too yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:28:11

Sky your thoughts on Jaden Brunel. I like the shooting. Once again it's kind of like him and Osser combined make one AG.

Speaker 4: 1:28:20

Yeah, this seems like a guy that would have been like you know. He would have fit perfectly with last year's class.

Speaker 1: 1:28:28

He's one of those guys.

Speaker 3: 1:28:30

In a way T Will kind of would have filled that role, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:28:35

Yeah, I would say, yeah, I'd say he's like a taller T Will in that regard. You know he's not. He's not a big, you know he's not going to hammer you on the boards. He's got a pretty good stroke. But you know, maybe you know, I don't think he's a bang, I don't think he's a guy who's going to be banging down low very much. I think he's a very much a stretch forward type kind of guy. And you know again, and when you play at samford, you know there's that question of how much of that's going to translate up and and we definitely saw a mixed bag with that last year, as we know so, with coming up from mid-majors and so on and so forth.

Speaker 4: 1:29:10

So um, so maybe there's a jane brownell game that we're looking at.

Speaker 1: 1:29:14

Yeah, let's hope there's at least. I mean there's. On the one hand, you hope that there doesn't have to be one, um but uh. But on the other hand, uh, it would be nice if if he, you know, all these guys were contributing on the regular or with some level of consistency. But, as we know, as we look at these nine guys lined up in front of us, there's going to be, you know, one or two of these guys who they're not going to do nothing. You know, just like some guys didn't do nothing this year, and that's just. You know, getting lost in the shuffle or for whatever reason, right, not being. You know not being ready to play at that level, or taking time to adjust or find, or, you know, being part of a duplicative type skill set. You know these kind of things. However, however, the chips end up falling.

Speaker 1: 1:29:58

The big question I have at this point. So I did a post on the board which was basically, I basically kind of went over what I thought were the strengths of this team and how they've improved since last year, and to me there's definitely much better shooting, at least from the three-point standpoint. I don't necessarily think there's as much of the penetration ability as last year with guys like Desmond Claude and Wesley Yates who are just, you know, magicians down low being able to get there. But Rodney Rice is very good going, you know, driving to the basket, he can shoot. But if Rodney Rice gets hurt in a game, right then you're looking at at this point, jerry Easter, who I think is a very good player, but it doesn't really matter how good he is now.

Speaker 1: 1:30:53

The question is, is he going to be able to handle that level of basketball and at that position? So if Rodney Rice gets hurt in a game, who gets you out of the game? And I think that's where we get back to Ryan Carty, talking about the Utah State point guard that USC is in on a guy to at least get you out of the game. But it seems to me, at least on the surface, with the departure of Desmond Claude, wesley Yates, st Thomas, you're looking at less ball handling this year. I think. More shooting, less ball handling. Does that seem fair, a fair assessment?

Speaker 3: 1:31:31

Well, it does seem fair, Chris, but if you think back to that Northwestern game without Claude, there were some real issues at point guard. You know, slacker wasn't quite comfortable. In fact, they pretty much moved him off the ball in the second half of that game and that's when he really went off. Yeah, so it's not totally dissimilar to last year because, you know, maybe arenas can provide a little bit of that. And I do think there's going to be another guard. It remains to be seen what level he's from, but there will be at least one more guard on this roster.

Speaker 1: 1:32:09

They're going to need it because, because they're doing this point, they do the point guard by committee and they kind of rebound by committee and I think the, I think the the front court has definitely improved over last year as far as, from a size perspective, you've got, you know, a seven three guy and two six 10 guys and then a six seven guy who? Who was? Who bangs down low, but not necessarily a guy who you think might make all-conference, you know what I mean or who has a chance to make all-conference. So you're not looking at high-level. I mean, I think Jacob Covey is a good player and I think that Ezra Alsar is a good player and Gabe Dines is a good shot blocker and Jaden Burnell is kind of like a stretch four. He does a lot of damage, you know facing the basket. So it's not again, you know, if you go up against a big front line in the Big Ten, you know if someone has a 6 11 guy and a seven one guy, we can hang in there for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:33:15

But but we're not necessarily I don't see much of a uh, of an inside threat from a post scoring perspective, which is fine, you know. I think there's plenty of scoring on this team and you don't need that element necessarily anymore in college basketball. But you know, I think there's plenty of scoring on this team and you don't need that element necessarily anymore in college basketball. But you know, if you have it that's a nice thing to have. But I don't see it here. Consistent post-level scoring as an option. You know what I mean. Like, maybe you take advantage of matchups, but maybe Jacob Kofi ends up being better than I think he is. I think he's a solid player, but I don't see him as potential.

Speaker 4: 1:33:55

You know first or second option in the course of a game yeah, I, I think that you're not going to run stuff through him, but I think that and I love rishon agey. I think he's just got more size and more upside. I mean, a BPO of almost 50 is a true freshman in a good-ish conference in the ACC and that's with a lot of rough games too, that you would want to iron out in year two. Again, it's not going to be a first or second option to your team, but it's not like we're bereft. An option to your team but it's not like we're bereft and there's no chance of doing anything in there if teams just kind of say screw it, leave them open.

Speaker 1: 1:34:36

And he could develop. I'm not saying he can't develop. He might end up becoming more of a. You can see flashes of what he can do and I liked him coming out of high school. I'm just saying from a proven perspective. It's sort of up in the air as to you know what level of improvement he's going to have, especially with all these guys on this team who are, who are going to be kind of ball dominant, you know. Yeah, so okay.

Speaker 1: 1:35:02

So the Trojans have 10 players on the roster we talked about, you know, trying to go get another point guard. It seems to me that after that 11th scholarship, there's now 15 available. I don't even see the the point in in, uh, in bringing on four more scholarship players in a sense um, maybe a couple more, maybe take a flyer on a couple guys. You just get some guys for pure practice. You, if you want to just have practice players, that might be the way to go. But I just don't think that having 15 guys who were starting somewhere last year and then you're the 14th, 15th guy, what a miserable existence unless you're just fully prepared for that and willing to accept it.

Speaker 4: 1:35:52

Well, to Ryan's point too if you get somebody that's like a three-star that's been on people's grids, why invest a year trying to develop this guy for somebody else I don't know? Try again for what they did. Just get the guy from the smaller conference. That's a one-trick pony and maybe you can coax a lot out of that pony yeah good point, you know.

Speaker 3: 1:36:13

Another interesting question, at least that I had, was with this new roster limit. Usc was carrying 19 players last year, including a lot of walk-ons. I was wondering are some of these walk-ons going to get booted to the curb? Um, maybe a lot of those guys come back or maybe they add some some different walk-ons going to get booted to the curb.

Speaker 3: 1:36:30

Maybe a lot of those guys come back, or maybe they add some different walk-ons. I don't really know what that looks like, but I would imagine there are 15 players on the roster. How many of those are scholarship guys, I don't know. Well, I think they're.

Speaker 4: 1:36:46

Am I confusing this with football? But didn't they get rid of the whole concept of walk-ons, where it's 15 but they're all scholarship.

Speaker 3: 1:36:51

Yeah, yeah, they did so. There's no walk-ons anymore. Anybody on the roster has to be under scholarship, I believe. So I know that you. There's no scholarship limit anymore, it's a roster limit. Yeah yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 4: 1:37:04

Okay, yeah, you framed it properly. Yeah, yeah, you framed it properly. That's a good point.

Speaker 1: 1:37:11

So you could still have walk-ons right. I think so.

Speaker 3: 1:37:14

I'll have to check on that. In practices the walk-ons were basically the scout team, so there's under muscle men. From what I saw, there's roster limits.

Speaker 1: 1:37:21

Yeah, like you said, there's roster limits and there's scholarship limits, and I know the scholarship limit is now 15, but I don't know what the roster limit is.

Speaker 3: 1:37:30

The roster limit is 15. Oh, okay, so maybe the scholarship limit was 13 and there was no roster limit. Got it, got it. And that was the issue with that was well, okay, you can get a quote unquote, walk on who doesn't have a scholarship and you can pay him 100K at NIL, yeah, which was Yates actually, I think.

Speaker 1: 1:37:46

Huh, I mean not to quote that number or you can just give them, let them go to school for free. There's a word for that too, I don't know. I don't know. It rhymes with smaller schmip anyway. Well guys, I've actually. We're long in the tooth here, coming up on an hour and 40 minutes. I've actually got to go. Anything else you guys want to add we're long in the tooth here, coming up on an hour and 40 minutes. I've actually got to go.

Speaker 4: 1:38:15

Anything else you guys want to add? No, that's enough of USC basketball for today. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:38:21

I hope everyone out there enjoyed our previous segment with Ryan Cargy and also us talking basketball. You know our podcast in the off season are I don't know as needed, but usually every two to three weeks or so. But it's good to go do a nice long one to kind of tie everybody over. You know we kind of a bunch of bunch all of our podcasts in one big omnibus package. So that's kind of our approach. Thanks again for listening. Listening.

Speaker 1: 1:38:50

Be sure to go to USC basketballcom for all kinds of great Trojan basketball discussion. It seems that USC basketball fans are enjoy the off season more than the season of late last two years, cause the off season has been pretty fun to watch as far as, like you know, getting to see new players. Be sure to go on the various streaming platforms and like subscribe, like subscribe, comment, review, appreciate any kind of five-star ratings, as that helps boost us in the search engines. So, on behalf of Mark Backstrom and Sky Liam, hope everyone is enjoying their spring and we'll be back soon to talk more USC basketball. Fight on everybody. Fight on as on everybody.

Speaker 4: 1:39:30

Fight on, as always, fight on.